b16 gen II Vs. b18 a,b,or c

[sloan]

i have a 95 si and im debating on which swap would be the best. this car will be downhill autocross only, so im not looking for which is a better drag motor or which one has better 1/4 mile times. i already have koni adjustables, front and rear strut bars, aftermarket wheels wrapped in yokohama Avs EX100s and im also debating on taking out the power steering.

so which swap would be better, including the tranny...i want LSD

b16 gen II (which was stock in my car JDM and has the LSD)

or

b18 a,b, or c

i would like pros and cons for each motor. i am a JDM freek, and the b16 being uber JDM is a reason enough to get it for me but i am still looking to see which one would be best. Also keep in mind that i am looking for the best motor for me to get more money back too when i sell the car soon!

Oh btw, does the antenna go completely down or just half way?! :suprise:

[snoob]

okay before you get owned with flames about how you should just search, lets see...

first off i'd just like to say that IMO b16>b18 just in the fact that the b18b/c are SO popular that i'm actually less excited seeing a b18 swap than a mini-me.

well obviously the b18 has more torque, but not by much. but in autox all you need to do is keep your revs hi and you'll be fine. i believe a JDM b16a2 (sir2) and a USDM b18c1 (GSR) has the same amount of power available... i'm not sure of the redlines but from what i've read the b16 can rev much higher, much easier ( not if that matters, but i'm addicted to revs.) i would assume its lighter as well. Also i believe you can get an SIR2 tranny w/ LSD along with your motor swap, and it has shorter gears than b18c tranny and waay shorter gears than a b18b tranny.

lets recap.

power
b16 = b18c

torque
b16 < b18c

weight
b16 > b18c

revs
b16 > b18c

gear ratios
b16 > b18c

count the pros/cons and you decide what would be best for autox.
(all this information is what i can remember sitting on my ass in my living room... i'm pretty sure all of this is right but you can never be to sure about anything, so this post is entirly based on opinion. take it as you wish... and please if i'm wrong don't bitch, just correct)

[snoob]

oh ya... people are going to tell you that b16s are garbage, because they are ignorant of facts... just smile and nod.

about the power steering ... CUT it bro. when you engine swap loop your rack and it will drive the same as it does with p/s. you're gonna need all the potential power you can get for autox.

[ptgraphix]

first off i'd just like to say that IMO b16>b18 just in the fact that the b18b/c are SO popular that i'm actually less excited seeing a b18 swap than a mini-me.

well obviously the b18 has more torque, but not by much. but in autox all you need to do is keep your revs hi and you'll be fine. i believe a JDM b16a2 (sir2) and a USDM b18c1 (GSR) has the same amount of power available... i'm not sure of the redlines but from what i've read the b16 can rev much higher, much easier ( not if that matters, but i'm addicted to revs.) i would assume its lighter as well. Also i believe you can get an SIR2 tranny w/ LSD along with your motor swap, and it has shorter gears than b18c tranny and waay shorter gears than a b18b tranny.

lets recap.

power
b16 = b18c

torque
b16 < b18c

weight
b16 > b18c

revs
b16 > b18c

gear ratios
b16 > b18c

count the pros/cons and you decide what would be best for autox.
(all this information is what i can remember sitting on my ass in my living room... i'm pretty sure all of this is right but you can never be to sure about anything, so this post is entirly based on opinion. take it as you wish... and please if i'm wrong don't bitch, just correct)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your opinion is pointless because there are simple facts that you are not seeing or realizing.
1. Since when do b16 = b18c when it comes to power?
2. Since when does a b16 rev higher than a b18c especially a c5?

In my overall opinion a supercharged b16 would be the best for AutoX :)

And a b16a2 is the 3rd gen b16 not the sirII.

[HcOiNvDiAc]

b16s are more quick reving not longer reving (longer gears) like the b18s,

b16s :decent hp ....shitty torque ....cheeper....vtec


b18 (ls) mild hp ...good torque......little more expensive than b16 ....no vtec


b18c (gsr) high hp ...good torque .....expensive......vtec


b18c5 (type r) great hp .....great torque....really expensive ...vtec ...harder to find


h22a (type s) great hp ...great torque ....not too expensive ...vtec ....weaker rods ....harder to install.....heavy


k20's...great hp....great torque....really expensive....i-vtec....newer engines....harder to instal ...heavy

[DetainedCivic]

B16 responds better to bolt on's then a b18. Proven fact I read in a magazine...just can't remember which one. My choice would be b16.

[Andrey]

k20's...great hp....great torque....really expensive....i-vtec....newer engines....harder to instal ...heavy

k-series is lighter than b-series :roll:

[madhopz88]

k-series is lighter than b-series :roll:
are u serious? i never woulda thought that.

now i know ill probably get flamed, but imo, i think h22 is the best b/c u get 200hp, 161 trq right away. of course, it ways a whole approximate 70 lbs more, but with good suspension, its no biggy at all. a b16 turbo weighs more than the h22. so i think thats the best engine. however, it does all depend on whether ur goin turbo, supercharger, all motor.... im goin all motor or thats wut i'd choose cause it already comes with good #'s and it would cost a lot more to make a b16 b18 that fast and with that amount of torque.

[99siTUNER]

I have a b18c in my EG hatch, I'm happy with it. I cant imagine i WOULDNT be happy with a B16 but i ended up getting the gsr for the price of a b16 so WTF!!! if i was to do it all again, I would probably have gone with an LS swap honestly. or maybe even turbo D. and as for PS I love my car without PS. people complain about parking etc, if your arms thinner than the steering wheel, PS is for you. driveability is no difference, i definately dont get wicked torque steer like I did in my old SI with PS.

[vandynamics]

b16 is a torqueless motor. it makes less power then the b18c counterparts also.

for all that im concerned outside of ideal rod/stroke square motor geometry. the b18c's are superior in most every way.

having said that, it would only be logical to swap in the superior motor if money were not an issue, and track times were.

a b16 swap isnt likely to yeild appreciable gains over a standard d16y8. but hell, whatever floats your boat is fine with me

[doug piston]

i had a b16 in my eg and always wished i had gotten the b18. was actually about to swap again but the car soon died before i had the chance. i say go b18. why put in a sub par motor in

[teethandnails]

If you autocross and are doing a swap, you better plan on doing some serious internals, or supercharging it. If you swap you will be in street mod having to race with turbo'd M3's and nasty corvettes.

[Quebec_Civic]

I like both the b16 2nd gen and the b18's... iv had both b16gen2 and b18c type R... the type R's Higher Revs and torque really helped with my autocross .. dunno its up to you i guess.. there was a guy on here with a 4door with a b16 with bolts on .. complete autocross and it hauled ass!!

[\\ Forgiven //]

I dont think any of you guys really looked at the question. He is autocrossing. Screw an h22, more power is not always better in autocross. I do agree with teethandnails. You need to look at the class you want to race in and build your car based on what the class will allow, if you just throw shit into it and then go to the track you will probably be in a class that you are in no way ready for and you will get your ass kicked.

If you are just starting autocross, don't swap. Stay with basic bolt ons and learn how to drive your car well on the track. You will be soooo much happier in the long run.

[Sleeper]

The whole B16 > B18C makes me laugh... alot.

[teethandnails]

I like both the b16 2nd gen and the b18's... iv had both b16gen2 and b18c type R... the type R's Higher Revs and torque really helped with my autocross .. dunno its up to you i guess.. there was a guy on here with a 4door with a b16 with bolts on .. complete autocross and it hauled ass!!

It can be a quick autocross car with just the swap, but if you swap and engine, turbo, or supercharge you will be in Street Mod...where unless you make 250+ WHP on full slicks you will be eatin alive. It will be fun still tho :) I have a B18B in my hatch and its hella fun.

[j_fukin_t]

b16 is a torqueless motor. it makes less power then the b18c counterparts also.

for all that im concerned outside of ideal rod/stroke square motor geometry. the b18c's are superior in most every way.

having said that, it would only be logical to swap in the superior motor if money were not an issue, and track times were.

a b16 swap isnt likely to yeild appreciable gains over a standard d16y8. but hell, whatever floats your boat is fine with me
this man speaks the truth ;) and yes the b16 sucks unless its boosted ;) i know it sucks because well umm i have it and wish it would blow up cause then i'd have a reason to buy a gsr longblock

[doug piston]

this man speaks the truth ;) and yes the b16 sucks unless its boosted ;) i know it sucks because well umm i have it and wish it would blow up cause then i'd have a reason to buy a gsr longblock
werd. i know cause i had one and wish it woulda blew but the car was totalled instead. same solution different means

[ryanM]

b16s are more quick reving not longer reving (longer gears) like the b18s,

b16s :decent hp ....shitty torque ....cheeper....vtec


b18 (ls) mild hp ...good torque......little more expensive than b16 *WRONG* ....no vtec


b18c (gsr) high hp ...good torque .....expensive......vtec


b18c5 (type r) great hp .....great torque....really expensive ...vtec ...harder to find


h22a (type s) great hp ...great torque ....not too expensive ...vtec ....weaker rods ....harder to install.....heavy *WRONG*


k20's...great hp....great torque....really expensive....i-vtec....newer engines....harder to instal ...heavy*WORNG* lighter than a B series...

i love it when ppl guess. wrong info is awesome. i fixed that for ya

[JDM'sLover]

Who says stock b16 = stock b18c ? Thats bull!!! Stock b16 are weak!!!! B16 are the cheapest swap beside b18b vtec
Some of the best swap you want for you EG is either B18c, B20 or ****K20**** (the best IMO). Better if you have CX hatch, its a lil lighter.

Don't waste your money on b16, just save a lil more for the B18c/B20, trust me on this, cuz i owning one!!!!

[12.8:1 Ls/vtec]

In autocross, you night need some torque for acceleration out of the curves but at the same time you will still need the power at high rpms b/c that is where you will need to be all the time. B18a/b's will not last long if done like this. I promise.
A type R is perfect for this but super expensive so a GSR is the next best option. Some good bolt ons and a LSD will do the job. Lsd is also key in road racing. I'm a drag racer for the most part but I do know a little about how to auto X . B16 is just not gonna cut it and a K swap is just a bit too expensive right now. And yes, the K is about 20 pounds lighter than a b series. Where the weight is gone from is beyond me but it's lighter. An h22 is only like 35 pounds than a b series swap but it is a little much on the trouble side to swap for an auto cross car but is not that hard and would make an okay swap. LSD, torque, and the ability to keep the car within the powerband are key elements of autocross. Type R, GSR, h22, B16, then in last would be the b18a/b. There is no way that the b16 would ever come in first and it barely, just barely flows better than a b18c1. But the b18c1's intake ports were designed for mid range torque and hp; something the little b16 knows nothing of.

[tunerfreak87]

honestly i would never run a straight b16 over a b18(meaing a gsr or type r) the only way i woud run a straight b16 is if i b16b came to me before a b18c5 did :) and also you say hey the gsr/typeR has more torque and hp which is a given but i do like the b16 gear ratio's. my friends got 9k into a ls bottem end with a c5 head and the b16 tranny, i think thats a good combo IMO. N/A runnin LOW 12's and he's still doin shit to it. Again yeah the b18 is so common but unless its a ctr b16 im goin b18 any day

[vandynamics]

you make a good point.

the b16b is kind of in the league of its own. but still no damn tq.

[NOFX]

Why does it look like at least some people might have the idea that if you get a certain motor that you must have that stock transmission on it...

Oh yeha, and I think doug piston used to auto cross his B16 5G too.