Health Care Reform

[oc_civic]

can ANY ONE of you who support the bill say that you have read it in its ENTIRETY front to back? JUST curious.. NOT even trying to make any point or anything.. im just curious if you have read it completely.. i have not..

 

[LowNotSlow]

I read the first 500 or so pages before I started to drool on myself.

 

[joe7987]

can ANY ONE of you who support the bill say that you have read it in its ENTIRETY front to back? JUST curious.. NOT even trying to make any point or anything.. im just curious if you have read it completely.. i have not..

I have not read it front to back. I have skimmed through it, reading certain parts in more detail than others and have read through many online summaries from both democratic and republican sources.

 

[Voltio]

I hope none of you enjoy tanning booths. Under this awesome bill:

Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

And I don't care if tanning is good/bad for you. If people want to tan, let them tan.
Good thing is that the cast of Jersey Shore alone might be able to pay for this healthcare bill

 

[LowNotSlow]

I get my skin cancer the old fashioned way.

By rubbing cigarettes all over myself.

 

[Voltio]

I get my skin cancer the old fashioned way.

By rubbing cigarettes all over myself.

 

[joe7987]

lol.

yea, I read the tanning booth thing... and I think it's intelligent. I'm always in support of taxing things that are unhealthy. Yes, that includes unhealthy things that I take part in (alcohol, taco bell, etc...) Creates a healthier country while raising the federal income.

 

[LowNotSlow]

If we're focused on health why are cigarettes not outlawed?

 

[RonJ]

Where's the poll? Also, that's an op-ed column, not an article, which means it's opinion. There's an important difference.

The articles that I cited report analyses of data found in one or more polls. While the articles are op-ed, the analyses and conclusions are based on published poll data.


Basic reading says that 34% of those polled support the bill. This poll is also from November. If you look at what I wrote about current polling I flat out said "54% of Americans did NOT approve of healthcare reform as the Dems had penned it." I did not say America doesn't want reform, that's plainly false.

The purpose of my last two posts and the articles cited therein is to point out that your and the Republican party's interpretation of poll data is far too oversimplified and incorrectly gives the impression that most Americans do not support health care reform. On the contrary, the chart clearly shows that 46% of Americans either support the current bill or want it to be even stronger (opposite of Republican Party's position) whereas only 35% of Americans oppose the bill because they believe it goes too far (in line with the Republican Party's position). Therefore, the vast majority of the American people actually favor the idea of health care reform (46% in favor versus 34% against) and about 25% of those actually want the Reform Bill to do more. Recent poll data cited in the other article further show that support for the current Reform Bill is on the rise.

These facts lead to an obvious question: If the vast majority of Americans are in favor of health care reforms, then why have Republicans completely stonewalled the opportunity for bipartisan development of health care reform legislation by just voting NO as opposed to working with Democrats to iron out the details? It makes absolutely no sense. Republicans must do what's right for the American people not for what's right for a few lobbyists.

 

[RonJ]

can ANY ONE of you who support the bill say that you have read it in its ENTIRETY front to back? JUST curious.. NOT even trying to make any point or anything.. im just curious if you have read it completely.. i have not..

I also have not read it. My comments are based on reading numerous newspaper and internet articles on the topic.

 

[RonJ]

I'm always in support of taxing things that are unhealthy. Yes, that includes unhealthy things that I take part in (alcohol, taco bell, etc...) Creates a healthier country while raising the federal income.

I agree. There should be incentives for healthy behavior.

 

[joe7987]

If we're focused on health why are cigarettes not outlawed?

Don't ask me. I would support it fully.

 

[oc_civic]

lol.

yea, I read the tanning booth thing... and I think it's intelligent. I'm always in support of taxing things that are unhealthy. Yes, that includes unhealthy things that I take part in (alcohol, taco bell, etc...) Creates a healthier country while raising the federal income.

YOU have decided that America should be "healthy" by YOUR standards.. you completely abandon freedom and liberty, in favor of a NANNY state that determines what THEY find acceptable, and then through financial penalties MOLD the country as they see fit..

FREEDOM? is it important to you.... you live in a society where not everyone wants to eat oatmeal, and run 2 miles a day... you live in a society where some people may find joy and relaxation in smoking a carton of cigarettes a day.. WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO STRIP THAT AWAY.... WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO PRICE THINGS OUT OF GRASP THAT YOU DECIDE ARE NOT GOOD... i am sorry joe.. i like you.. but that is a f**kED UP perspective.. the FREEDOM of the people is probably the most IMPORTANT thing that our nation brings to the table..

 

[oc_civic]

If we're focused on health why are cigarettes not outlawed?

because we live in a FREE nation..

if you guys want national health care...
if you want nanny state type governments....
if you are not really that concerned about basic freedom and liberty...

go live somewhere in Europe.. we know there are plenty of f**ked up countries to pick from there that already have health care.. and already tell you what to do and how to do it..

 

[oc_civic]

John G. Is 63 years old and owns a small business. He's a life-long Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but evaporated. With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

John has a granddaughter.. Ashley is a recent college grad. She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants. Ashley campaigned hard for Barack Obama. After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is taking over.

Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse.. Like she has done many times in the past, she e-mailed her grandfather asking for some financial help.

Here is his reply:
________________________________________

Sweetheart, I received your request for assistance.

Ashley, you know I love you dearly and I 'm sympathetic to your financial plight. Unfortunately, times have changed. With the election of President Obama, your grandmother and I have had to set forth a bold new economic plan of our own..."The Ashley Economic Empowerment Plan." Let me explain.

Your grandmother and I are life-long, wage-earning tax payers. We have lived a comfortable life, as you know, but we have never had the fancier things like European vacations, luxury cars, etc.. We have worked hard and were looking forward to retiring soon. But the plan has changed. Your president is raising our personal and business taxes significantly. He says it is so he can give our hard earned money to other people. Do you know what this means, Ashley? It means less for us, and we must cut back on many business and personal expenses.

You know the wonderful receptionist who worked in my office for more than 23 years? The one who always gave you candy when you came over to visit? I had to let her go last week. I can't afford to pay her salary and all of the government mandated taxes that go with having employees. Your grandmother will now work 4 days a week to answer phones, take orders and handle the books. We will be closed on Fridays and will lose even more income to the Wal-Mart.

I'm also very sorry to report that your cousin Frank will no longer be working summers in the warehouse. I called him at school this morning. He already knows about it and he's upset because he will have to give up skydiving and his yearly trip to Greenland to survey the polar bears.

That's just the business side of things. Some personal economic effects of Obama's new taxation policies include none other than you! You know very well that over the years your grandmother and I have given you thousands of dollars in cash, tuition assistance, food, housing, clothing, gifts, etc.., etc. But by your vote, you have chosen to help others -- not at your expense -- but at our expense.

If you need money now sweetheart, I recommend you call: 202-456-1111 / 202-456-1111 / 202-456-1111 / 202-456-1111. Those are the direct phone numbers for the White House.. You can also contact the White House here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/ .

You yourself told me how foolish it is to vote Republican. You said Mr Obama is going to be the People's President, and is going to help every American live a better life. Based on everything you've told me, along with all the promises we heard during the campaign, I'm sure Mr. Obama will be happy to transfer some stimulus money into your bank account. Have him call me for the account number which I memorized years ago..

Perhaps you can now understand what I've been saying all my life: those who vote for a president should consider the impact on the nation as a whole, and not be just concerned with what they can get for themselves. What Obama supporters don't seem to realize is all of the money he is redistributing to illegal aliens and non-taxpaying Americans (the so-called "less fortunate") comes from tax-paying families.

Remember how you told me, "Only the richest of the rich will be affected"? Well guess what, honey? Because we own a business, your grandmother and I are now considered to be the richest of the rich. On paper, it might look that way, but in the real world, we are far from it.

As you said while campaigning for Obama, some people will have to carry more of the burden so all of America can prosper. You understand what that means, right? It means that raising taxes on productive people results in them having less money; less money for everything, including granddaughters.

I'm sorry, Ashley, but the well has run dry.. The free lunches are over.. I have no money to give you now. So, congratulations on your choice for "change." For future reference, I encourage you to try and add up the total value of the gifts and cash you have received from us, just since you went off to college, and compare it to what you expect to get from Mr. Obama over the next 4 (or 8) years. I have not kept track of it, Ashley. It has all truly been the gift of our hearts.

Remember, we love you dearly....but from now on you'll need to call the number mentioned above. Your "Savior" has the money we would have given to you. Just try and get it from him.

Good luck, sweetheart.

Love, Grandpa

 

[RonJ]

YOU have decided that America should be "healthy" by YOUR standards.. you completely abandon freedom and liberty, in favor of a NANNY state that determines what THEY find acceptable, and then through financial penalties MOLD the country as they see fit..

FREEDOM? is it important to you.... you live in a society where not everyone wants to eat oatmeal, and run 2 miles a day... you live in a society where some people may find joy and relaxation in smoking a carton of cigarettes a day.. WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO STRIP THAT AWAY.... WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO PRICE THINGS OUT OF GRASP THAT YOU DECIDE ARE NOT GOOD... i am sorry joe.. i like you.. but that is a f**kED UP perspective.. the FREEDOM of the people is probably the most IMPORTANT thing that our nation brings to the table..

I would agree if the habit ONLY affected the smoker. It clearly does not. The habit affects the health of people (indirect smoke) who live with the smoker, and the family and/or taxpayers bear the cost burden of health care when smokers develop severe lung diseases, such emphysema and cancer, which occur at high frequency in smokers.

 

[RonJ]

if you guys want national health care...
if you want nanny state type governments....
if you are not really that concerned about basic freedom and liberty...

go live somewhere in Europe.. we know there are plenty of f**ked up countries to pick from there that already have health care.. and already tell you what to do and how to do it..

Given that the majority of Americans support Health Care Reform, perhaps you are the one who should be looking into moving to another country.

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

I don't know how small businesses are complaining of losing retirement and such. My profits have gone up during the recession. If people would stop putting their retirement in plans that deal with the stock market, or investments they wouldn't have lost it. They put their retirement savings into a high risk account in the hopes of making money on it. MY retirement plan deals with setting aside 15% of my monthly paycheck to retirement, and it goes into a separate bank account. My plan is to make money off of the interest.

Actually, wait, I can. It's because they got too spendy when the economy was doing good, they hired more people than they needed, and spent more than they needed. It's their own fault for doing this. This recession is just going to teach small and big businesses how to manage their money better, and it took the hard way. Although I'm sure the financial sector won't change.

OC, that story is such a bullshit made up story. I don't believe a single word of it.

 

[RonJ]

John G. Is 63 years old and owns a small business. He's a life-long Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but evaporated. With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

John has a granddaughter.. Ashley is a recent college grad. She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants. Ashley campaigned hard for Barack Obama. After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is taking over.

Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse.. Like she has done many times in the past, she e-mailed her grandfather asking for some financial help.

Here is his reply:
________________________________________

Sweetheart, I received your request for assistance.

Ashley, you know I love you dearly and I 'm sympathetic to your financial plight. Unfortunately, times have changed. With the election of President Obama, your grandmother and I have had to set forth a bold new economic plan of our own..."The Ashley Economic Empowerment Plan." Let me explain.

Your grandmother and I are life-long, wage-earning tax payers. We have lived a comfortable life, as you know, but we have never had the fancier things like European vacations, luxury cars, etc.. We have worked hard and were looking forward to retiring soon. But the plan has changed. Your president is raising our personal and business taxes significantly. He says it is so he can give our hard earned money to other people. Do you know what this means, Ashley? It means less for us, and we must cut back on many business and personal expenses.

You know the wonderful receptionist who worked in my office for more than 23 years? The one who always gave you candy when you came over to visit? I had to let her go last week. I can't afford to pay her salary and all of the government mandated taxes that go with having employees. Your grandmother will now work 4 days a week to answer phones, take orders and handle the books. We will be closed on Fridays and will lose even more income to the Wal-Mart.

I'm also very sorry to report that your cousin Frank will no longer be working summers in the warehouse. I called him at school this morning. He already knows about it and he's upset because he will have to give up skydiving and his yearly trip to Greenland to survey the polar bears.

That's just the business side of things. Some personal economic effects of Obama's new taxation policies include none other than you! You know very well that over the years your grandmother and I have given you thousands of dollars in cash, tuition assistance, food, housing, clothing, gifts, etc.., etc. But by your vote, you have chosen to help others -- not at your expense -- but at our expense.

If you need money now sweetheart, I recommend you call: 202-456-1111 / 202-456-1111 / 202-456-1111 / 202-456-1111. Those are the direct phone numbers for the White House.. You can also contact the White House here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/ .

You yourself told me how foolish it is to vote Republican. You said Mr Obama is going to be the People's President, and is going to help every American live a better life. Based on everything you've told me, along with all the promises we heard during the campaign, I'm sure Mr. Obama will be happy to transfer some stimulus money into your bank account. Have him call me for the account number which I memorized years ago..

Perhaps you can now understand what I've been saying all my life: those who vote for a president should consider the impact on the nation as a whole, and not be just concerned with what they can get for themselves. What Obama supporters don't seem to realize is all of the money he is redistributing to illegal aliens and non-taxpaying Americans (the so-called "less fortunate") comes from tax-paying families.

Remember how you told me, "Only the richest of the rich will be affected"? Well guess what, honey? Because we own a business, your grandmother and I are now considered to be the richest of the rich. On paper, it might look that way, but in the real world, we are far from it.

As you said while campaigning for Obama, some people will have to carry more of the burden so all of America can prosper. You understand what that means, right? It means that raising taxes on productive people results in them having less money; less money for everything, including granddaughters.

I'm sorry, Ashley, but the well has run dry.. The free lunches are over.. I have no money to give you now. So, congratulations on your choice for "change." For future reference, I encourage you to try and add up the total value of the gifts and cash you have received from us, just since you went off to college, and compare it to what you expect to get from Mr. Obama over the next 4 (or 8) years. I have not kept track of it, Ashley. It has all truly been the gift of our hearts.

Remember, we love you dearly....but from now on you'll need to call the number mentioned above. Your "Savior" has the money we would have given to you. Just try and get it from him.

Good luck, sweetheart.

Love, Grandpa

I love these kinds of story games. Here's mine.


Ashley's reply to Grandpa:

I understand your decision. I should never have expected so much financial support from you. It was very immature on my part, and your letter has made me a better person. I will now find part time employment to help pay for rent on a more modest apartment and for my college tuition. But Grandpa, with all due respect, please understand that, in actuality, the previous Bush administration rather than the Obama administration is entirely responsible for all of your current financial woes. Bush's cronies allowed Wall Street to steal all of your hard earned savings and failed to take action on controlling the rapidly rising costs of health care. Bush also squandered much of your money on an unjustified war, when he should have been focused on the terrorists responsible for the 911 attack.

I hope you can see the truth.

Good luck Grandpa.

Love, Ashley

----------------------------------

Grandpa's reply to Ashley:

I did more reading on what you claimed about the Bush administration. You were completely right. I was listening to the wrong television news station. It turned out that they lied to me. I hope you can forgive me.

Love, Grandpa
--------------------------------------

Ashley's reply to Grandpa:

Don't worry Grandpa. Everyone makes mistakes. By the way, I just landed a high paying job that will help support you and Grandma through your hard times. I could not have done this without your supporting me through part of my College education.

Love, Ashley
--------------------------------

And they lived happily ever after...

 

[oc_civic]

OC, that story is such a bullshit made up story. I don't believe a single word of it.

oh definitely.. i totally agree.. was not trying to pass it as real..