Can't shift out of neutral with car stopped.

[Restotech]

At which point are you measuring 3/8" clutch fork movement? That's not nearly enough at the end of the fork that is easily accessible. Bleed it properly and recheck. Possibly bad master or slave. And the hose can deteriorate internally and restrict the flow of fluid without any external signs of damage or swelling.

 

[Stock Car]

At which point are you measuring 3/8" clutch fork movement? That's not nearly enough at the end of the fork that is easily accessible. Bleed it properly and recheck. Possibly bad master or slave. And the hose can deteriorate internally and restrict the flow of fluid without any external signs of damage or swelling.

3/8 measured at the external end of clutch release fork. Slave and master are new, no air, no pump up, holds pressure. Pedal does feel a little soft like its not ramping up pressure against the pressure plate or something. Hard to tell as this is my only car though.

 

[Restotech]

I only measure 1/2" on mine. Thought it would be more. You can have someone try to push the fork further with a prybar to see if the is more movement needed.

 

[MotorMo]

Maby try to "bleed" the hydraulic portion of the clutch one more time before you drop the trans- just in case you have an air bubble in the system. I second what
XpL0d3r said about replacing the clutch slave and master as a pair when it comes to good repair practices.

After.

If every thing was working fine until you replaced the slave, and now your getting issues, I would focus my attention on those repairs first.

 

[Stock Car]

Maby try to "bleed" the hydraulic portion of the clutch one more time before you drop the trans- just in case you have an air bubble in the system. I second what
XpL0d3r said about replacing the clutch slave and master as a pair when it comes to good repair practices.

If every thing was working fine until you replaced the slave, and now your getting issues, I would focus my attention on those repairs first.

MotorMo- thanks for measuring that!

The slave and master cylinders are now both brand new, symptoms remain the same as they were from the beginning. Bled it again and no change. Its gotta be clutch internals or transmission at this point. The only part left in hydraulics could be the flexible portion of the line, but i see no bulges.

 

[Stock Car]

Would it be a terrible idea to extend the cutch slave cylinder push rod 1/8 inch and see if that solves it?

Also another finding, if im in neutral and push clutch pedal to floor while still rolling then stop while still holding clutch down, I can get into gear easily. But if i let off clutch and then go for first it wont go. Similar to before when holding clutch to start car i can immediately get in to gear but not if i release clutch pedal then depress again the shifter wont go. I'm confused. Busted pressure plate?!

 

[MotorMo]

The "adjuster" pin that is located under your dash and is connected to your Clutch Master Cylinder, is supposed to be " set from factory ". Shouldn't be a need to adjust it. However with after market parts, it may be necessary. I wouldn't recommend it however- you can cause issues at the clutch when pushing the "fingers" too far, and/or not being able to fully release the clutch ( you can smoke the clutch due to constant pressure upon it.

 

[Diana Nam]

from what i read so far i don't think its the clutch or pressure plate problem as they would cause the clutch to constantly slip when you apply throttle. you said that the pedal still feel abit soft and not like its building up pressure sounds to me that the seal in the slave might not be able to hold pressure. Sometimes new replacement one can go out fast sometimes it works flawless aftermaket brand other then one from honda is a hit or miss sometimes. so if you already re-bleed your lines and the pedal still feels that way and you already had replaced the master cylinder also i would say the seal in the slave might not be able to hold as much pressure as its suppose to. Aside from that only other thing would be your gearbox might need to be rebuilt or replaced. 182k is rather a lot of miles. I had few of my go at 198k-220k miles in the past.

 

[Stock Car]

Things got even stranger. I had the negative off the battery overnight. Woke up in a rush and drove to a larger town nearby. Along the way a Honda Mechanic drove the car but there was no shifting issue present. Later that day I realized that I had not let the car idle for 5 minutes after un-hooking the negative so the car was not idling properly, kinda all over the place and quivering, even died once. So I reset the ECU properly and the car idles fine and my shifting issue returns.

 

[MotorMo]

A broken/failing clutch spring can cause this (a possibility) the spring can become dislodged and wedge it self sideways in its cavity, causing intermittent hard shifting, then freeing up and sitting back in its perch. The ECU has nothing to due with the mechanical/hydrolic portion of your clutch. Failing hydrolic portions of your clutch (master, and slave cylinder) can act differently when temps change- when ambient temps are cold, the seals in them are harder, and have less flex- so perhaps it shifted better due to things sealing up better?

 

[Stock Car]

A broken/failing clutch spring can cause this (a possibility) the spring can become dislodged and wedge it self sideways in its cavity, causing intermittent hard shifting, then freeing up and sitting back in its perch. The ECU has nothing to due with the mechanical/hydrolic portion of your clutch. Failing hydrolic portions of your clutch (master, and slave cylinder) can act differently when temps change- when ambient temps are cold, the seals in them are harder, and have less flex- so perhaps it shifted better due to things sealing up better?

Yeah the point with the ECU was that when the idle RPMs are outa wack the car actually shifted better. Similar finding to when I rev the engine slightly the car shift smooth as butter.

boohoo: I have replaced both the master and slave cylinders with no effect.

 

[MotorMo]

Since there is only two main sections of your clutch- the hydrolic and the mechanical- and you have replaced both cylinders on the hydrolic side of things...its sounding like a mechanical issue in the clutch assembly.
Strange that you felt the symptom was not as apparent when the idle was outa wack. I'm at a loss about that one.
It still sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging for what ever reason, not allowing the trans to freely shift when the flywheel is spinning.

It is very doughtful, but a worn thrust washer on your crank shaft can cause excessive lateral movement of the crank, and thus flywheel, causing weird shifting issues....Altho its a possibility...I have never seen it happen on a Honda, ever in my 15+ yrs of wrenching.
My 2 cents is the next step is to remove the trans and see what going on with the clutch.

 

[Stock Car]

Since there is only two main sections of your clutch- the hydrolic and the mechanical- and you have replaced both cylinders on the hydrolic side of things...its sounding like a mechanical issue in the clutch assembly.
Strange that you felt the symptom was not as apparent when the idle was outa wack. I'm at a loss about that one.
It still sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging for what ever reason, not allowing the trans to freely shift when the flywheel is spinning.

It is very doughtful, but a worn thrust washer on your crank shaft can cause excessive lateral movement of the crank, and thus flywheel, causing weird shifting issues....Altho its a possibility...I have never seen it happen on a Honda, ever in my 15+ yrs of wrenching.
My 2 cents is the next step is to remove the trans and see what going on with the clutch.

Now I am confused, the clutch looks fine. There was one tranny to block mounting bolt missing just above the driver side Axel. Not sure one missing tranny bolt would cause all the shifting issues though...

 

[MotorMo]

While its all apart...grab a "straight edge" and check if components are warped- measure on the face of the flywheel and pressure plate. You can youtube some videos if you are unsure. My mechanics eye also sees an area on your clutch that got very hot- via the blue discoloration on the clutch. I also noted no "brand names" on the clutch- not saying that's the issue, just saying I have chased my tail using aftermarket parts that mostly work.
If it all checks out and you dont buy a new OEM Honda set up, make sure you Clean and Lube the appropriate points on the trans so the clutch disc can move freely ( ie the splines of the input shaft and where the throw out bearing rides. ). You could even get a small screw driver and scrape the splines of the trans input shaft to ensure theres no dirt, or rust that would stop the clutch disc from "floating" in-between the flywheel and the pressure plate when clutch pedal is depressed.

 

[Stock Car]

While its all apart...grab a "straight edge" and check if components are warped- measure on the face of the flywheel and pressure plate. You can youtube some videos if you are unsure. My mechanics eye also sees an area on your clutch that got very hot- via the blue discoloration on the clutch. I also noted no "brand names" on the clutch- not saying that's the issue, just saying I have chased my tail using aftermarket parts that mostly work.
If it all checks out and you dont buy a new OEM Honda set up, make sure you Clean and Lube the appropriate points on the trans so the clutch disc can move freely ( ie the splines of the input shaft and where the throw out bearing rides. ). You could even get a small screw driver and scrape the splines of the trans input shaft to ensure theres no dirt, or rust that would stop the clutch disc from "floating" in-between the flywheel and the pressure plate when clutch pedal is depressed.

Thanks MotorMo. Yeah the blue tab on the disc seemed strange. Good call on the straight edge. The clutch is a Luk. Not sure if this is good or bad. The part numbers seem to reference 92-95 year civics but I am fairly certain 96-00 uses the same or close. Honda has different part numbers for pressure plate and disc but Exedy sells the same clutch kit for both series civics. Anyway sounds like Exedy clutch kits are the basic OEM go to option and cheap enough so I may just replace it with that.

I cracked the tranny and brought it to a Honda master tech, he thought all the synchro looked fine. So now I am really stumped and don't just want to bolt it all back up with the same stuff. Hence my motivation to replace the clutch.

Could an improperly adjusted clutch pedal wear out a pressure plate in 10k miles? I remember my buddy adjusting the clutch pedal when we installed the clutch and recently I learned Honda clutches are self adjusting...

 

[MotorMo]

We use Exedy replacement clutches at my shop and have never had a problem in many years with them. And yes, the Exedy replacements are for a wide range of civics- kind of a one size fits all replacement. If you do replace your clutch, get your flywheel machined to ensure a flat and new surface. Even if its already flat, there could be "hot spots" on it that would cause chattering down the road.
All "hydrolic" clutches (vs cable clutches) are self adjusting. Honda recommends never to adjust the clutch master push rod, as it should be pre-set from the factory. If its been mis-adjusted, it may not be able to fully disengage the clutch, thus giving hard to shift symptoms. Should have some "free ply" at the top and bottom of the pedal travel. If it is misadjusted, it could wear things out faster in the clutch housing. So yes, it can "smoke" the face of the pressure plate and over use the throw out bearing. If the pressure plate has been in and out several times, the pressure plate can also create a warped "pressure"- due to the large center spring that hold pressure to the clutch getting fully flexed and unflexed if removed in an uneven pattern. Again, that would only cause a chatter upon engagement.
Great news about the syncros- if they are ok, and you install a new clutch and machine the flywheel, and still have the issue- then you have also narrowed it down to the hydrolic portion of the clutch system. Good idea also is to inspect the shift linkage for loose joints and worn bushings, as these things can change the alignment of the shifter input as its forcing things into gear.