Ep3 Type r loss of power at high revs

[Pierce Lewis]

Hi all,

This is my first post so I apologise if I have posted in the incorrect location or posted incorrectly.

Over the weekend I bought a 53 plate ep3, test drove and all went well, vtec kicking in in lower gears (didn't get chance to try higher gears).

Now that I have had the car a couple of days and had chance to wind it up properly there is a problem.... I can feel vtec engaging at around 5800 however alost immediately the power feels like it flattens off and then drops off completely when I hit 8000rpm, stopping the cat from hitting the limiter, this seems to happen in all gears.

Oil is topped up and I had covered a good 15 miles before getting up to the higher rev range.

I am no mechanic but it sounds like loss of oil pressure? Am I thinking along the right lines and if so are there any usual suspects for the cause?

Looking forward to any suggestions! Many thanks in advance.

Pierce

 

[Pierce Lewis]

No dash lights are coming on what so ever, I will get the codes read next oppertunity I get, thanks

 

[MotorMo]

Sounds like maby you have a clogged catalytic converter. This would be most noticeable when the car is warm, and your moving alot of air through it, like on the hywy stuffing 3rd gear. you can remove the rear O2 sensor and do a hywy pull and see if its any better?

 

[Pierce Lewis]

Sounds like a valid suggestion. You lost me on the hywy? Do a hywy pull? Cheers

 

[XpL0d3r]

Sounds like a valid suggestion. You lost me on the hywy? Do a hywy pull? Cheers

He means highway, I am not sure why he abbreviated it like that, lol.

I'm not sure if his suggestion will work though, because pulling the secondary o2 sensor wont magically unclog the cat if it's plugged up. The gases will still be backed up in the exhaust system. I think next step is what @boofoo said, and to pull the CEL codes. No dash lights coming on whatsoever is a little worrisome.. not even when you first turn the car on?

 

[Pierce Lewis]

All dash lights flash up on ignition as they should then go off. Cam chain kit replaced 13k ago by honda with receipts, only modification I can see is an aftermarket intake (Itg I belive is the brand). I have ordered new nkg iridium plugs and I'm going to check the spool valve function when I get a chance. Cheers for the suggestions so far guys

 

[Pierce Lewis]

UPDATE: Vtec 100% ingaged in 2nd gear tonight and took me alk the way past 8k. The car wouldn't repeat it though in any gear which makes me think perhaps a faulty spool valve or oil pressure switch? I will try again tromorrow however in 4th gear to see if I will work first tryomorrow owever in a higher gear.

 

[MotorMo]

If it was an oil pressure issue, there would be a code for spool valve not working, or something of that sort. Honda has alot of feed back input for things like the i-VTEC and VTEC.
What you guys didn't like my hywy? Lol, I have no idea where I got that from lol.
Anyways, I've found that if a car has a clogged cat or tail pipe, you can make a noticeable difference in your "butt dyno" by removing the primary O2 sensor. I've found it a quick and cheap tool.
You can always remove your cat and look through it as well, as this will be the tell all.
Still sounds like an air flow issue to me but I could be wrong. 1st gear and 2nd gear run through the RPM's fast, unlike 3rd and 4th gear where they push lots of air through the tail pipe for an extended amount of time. If air pressure backs up in the exhaust ( 2nd gear pull into a 3rd gear pull ) VTEC may not be noticeable at all- doesn't matter how much you can stuff in an engine if it cant get out.
I'm curious now, and look forward to the mystery being solved.

 

[Pierce Lewis]

Thanks for the info! My problem is we are mid winter at the minute.... go to work in the dark and come home from work in the dark.... vtec seems to kick in as an when it wants to it would seem, more not so. However even when it does kick in it fails to take the car all the way to the limiter. I tested out 2nd 3rd and 4th today and got mixed results, sometimes kicking in and other times not, none of which would go all the way to the limiter, just under 8k rpm and the power dies :/ there could be two faults at play perhaps....

 

[Pierce Lewis]

Did you connect a code reader to look for real and pending CEL codes?

Unfortunately haven't had chance yet at I don't have a reader myself, a close fend hs a garage nearby and I stopped in this evening however he had already closed shop. Will keep you posted as soon as I get it done. Thanks

 

[Pierce Lewis]

Update: an app based reader showed up no error codes. I fitted a new Vtec solenoid assembly and replaced the spark plugs and no change.... vtec seems to kick in after driving "economically" for 5 miles or so, after which is refuses to engage untill an "economical" 5 mile is completed once more. I am going to get the codes read by a garage to see if the app basedated reader missed anythiby next. I have checked the sump and there are no dents present.

 

[MotorMo]

A shot in the dark idea- What if your thermostat was sticking open? Maby causing the coolant temp sender to read low enough and change how the VTEC operates? Not super likely, but food for thought.
Are you running a factory ECU, or is it tuned?
Strange they had to replace your timing chain....I would look at your mechanical timing in case they got a cam off a tooth. That could explain the lack of power at the top end. I wonder maby if the techs at Honda damaged the variable valve timing mechanism in the cam sprocket when they replaced the timing chain? But that issue would show up when you checked for codes.

 

[Pierce Lewis]

the engine seems to warm up as expected, if the thermostat was stuck open I think it would take considerably longer for the dial to display normal running temperature. FYI normal running temperature seems to be around 1/3 of the display, a friend had an EP3 and said this is as his was also.

Stock ECU to my knowledge, standard exhaust system.

the lack of power up top feels like an electronic limiter, its really weird. fingers crossed there will be a code that can enlighten us!

thanks!

 

[Pierce Lewis]

UPDATE: no CEL codes at all! However the issue is soon to be resolved!

My mechanic unplugged the vtc coil and the car now runs smoothly all the way to the limiter with no hesitations (no tvec), I have been assured that once this coil has been replaced the vtec will also kick in! I have ordered a genuine (used) part for 27.50 GBP and should arrive in the next 2 days. I will update you again once it is fitted!

 

[MotorMo]

Sweet deal. Keep us updated!

 

[Pierce Lewis]

Back to the drawing board...... same issues with a replacement vtc solenoid.....

 

[MotorMo]

Bummer-They do fail, as we just replaced one this week at my shop for a "rattle upon start up when cold". What does your mechanic think should be the next step?

 

[Pierce Lewis]

I also have a rattle on start up however I believe that to be the starter motor, doesn't bother me that it's there. Funnily enough I am going out for his 30th birthday this evening so will be sure to discuss it at some point!

 

[Pierce Lewis]

We Flushed the engine in the thought that the interlocking pins for vtec could be sticking and no luck. I noticed that I could hit vtec consistently between the point where the engine temperature is hot enough for vtec but not up to normal running temp. I have ordered a new temp sender unit, should be here Monday! Crossing fingers, toes, arms and legs...

 

[Pierce Lewis]

Thanks for the diagram, the vtc and vtec coil assemblies have been replaced including the strainers. A comouter tld us they were both switching correctly when hitting 5.8k rpm. We've disconnected cmp sensor 1 and it had much the same effect as disconnecting the vtc coil, could do with getting a known working cmp sensor to try out but it's too coincidental that vte works when the engine isn't quite up to normal running temperature