2000 LX piston rings

[DeadCivicJen]

Hi everyone! I could use a little help here....I knew my head gasket was failing. Car overheated (bad coolant temp sending unit wires too short so I didn't have temp gage) long story short the car died and wouldn't start. Starter is fine, belts turn. It seems like the engine isn't turning hard enough. Getting air, fuel, and spark. I am going to grab the cylinder compression test kit later. I already replaced the head gasket and it still won't start. I am thinking the piston rings are fried. Im extremely limited on cash right now so I need this to be as cheap as possible. If I test the compression and find it low I would imagine its the piston rings. Can I replace them without pulling the entire engine out? Can I get away without having the cylinders bored? Do I need any special tools? Anything else I can try? Please help! I need my car back.

 

[ctag]

Fastest path to a working car would probably be a pick-a-part, grab a replacement engine for ~$300 (could be lower, or more).

You might be able to pull the pistons out by removing the oil pan and head with the engine in place, but I've never heard of that being done... Chances are if the rings are shot, you're going to want to measure the cylinders and buy replacement rings that are offset +/- by some amount to compensate (I've never done this, just from what I've read around). That would be at least one special tool.

If you had the head off to replace the gasket, did you get a picture or a good look at the pistons and cylinder walls?

If the car died from overheating, I really don't think you'd want to press it back into service without thoroughly checking out the engine components to make sure they aren't damaged..

 

[DeadCivicJen]

I didn't take a picture of the engine while I had the head off. I checked it out. Cylinders looked ok as far as I could tell. Im no expert by any means but nothing looked nicked or anything. Walls were smooth. There was a little rust in one and I am assuming that is because of the head gasket. I guess I can try to do the piston rings and if I fail at that I have only wasted $50 on them. Then look for an engine if necessary. Is there anything else that could cause loss of compression?

 

[ctag]

Valves not sealing could also cause loss of compression, I'm not sure of anything else. .. I really feel like the engine should at least start and run poorly even if the rings are worn, can you describe what happens when you try turning it over in more detail?

A cheap way to test for compression is to see how long the engine will turn over (with the fuel pump and ignition fuse removed) before the battery dies. If it's only a few cranks (like ~10-20 seconds) and then it gives up, you have some sort of compression pushing back on the starter. If it just goes and goes and goes, then there's no compression at all. Cranking it like that is not a nice thing to do to the engine as far as I know, but it'll give you an initial idea in a jam.

Hopefully a more knowledgeable member will drop by and set what I say straight if need be, I'm just a tinkerer.

 

[DeadCivicJen]

Well I did the compression test. From left to right I will call them 1 thru 4. Idk the actual cylinder numbers. 1 had 60 pi. 2 and 3 showed nothing. 4 had about 55. So since I did the head gasket and it didn't fix it I would guess piston rings or valves. Any advice? Can I narrow it down further?

 

[DeadCivicJen]

Timing is good. Is the leak down test where I put a teaspoon of oil down in the pistons and retest compression? If it goes up then its the piston rings. If not then its in the valves, correct?

 

[DeadCivicJen]

Thanks for your help. Its much appreciated!!!

 

[DeadCivicJen]

So I put a teaspoon of oil down pistons 2 and 3 and tested the compression again. I got 15 to 20 lbs on both instead of nothing. From my understanding this could mean problems with the valves. Correct? I will call around to get the leak down test kit tomorrow.

 

[Kleber Fonseca]

Hi...

I had the same problem. Overheating. Now, I am rebuild all the systems.

My cylinder walls are like mirrors. I've bougth a stone adapter to do the X pattern with my makita.
I do this first in a plastic water tube. To test my skills. That's ok...

I have some videos about this job in my civic video collection: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLTUOBf3bsazvIykImLR1sKemL_eP9iXU

My cylinder head is off and I want to do the same work. I would like to put new pistons rings just to avoid future problems. So, I'd like to replace them without pulling the entire engine (block) out.

I have some videos about this job in my civic video collection: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLTUOBf3bsax3IvH86oA2ma_vOtJyFq3M

I hope help you DeadCivicJen.

Well, my question/problem is how really know if I MUST change the piston rings because I wouldn't to do this hard job in my garage in vain.

My cylinder head is off. Because of that I can't do compression test/leak down test.

Does anybody imagine any test that I can do with my block exposed ?

I don't want to assembly all and make the tests to discover that I have to open it again and change the rings.
I also don't want to change the piston rings without some real reason to do this job.

Help ?

Thanks

 

[DeadCivicJen]

Well, I got the pistons out. One of them looks like a file was taken to it. I posted the pic. The cylinders are all very smooth. They don't seem to have any damage. I saw a cylinder honing tool at harbor freight and was wondering if I should get it and hone the cylinders since I have no intention of pulling the block out. Would I still get standard bore pistons and rings? This is my first time doing anything like this but I need my car back for the least amount of money possible. Any advice would be fabulous.

 

[Kleber Fonseca]

Well, I got the pistons out. One of them looks like a file was taken to it. I posted the pic. The cylinders are all very smooth. They don't seem to have any damage. I saw a cylinder honing tool at harbor freight and was wondering if I should get it and hone the cylinders since I have no intention of pulling the block out. Would I still get standard bore pistons and rings? This is my first time doing anything like this but I need my car back for the least amount of money possible. Any advice would be fabulous.

You have to measure the wear and taper in directions X and Y at three levels in each cylinder.
This is the only way to know if a bore honing is required.

By the way, for this kind of job you must have the service manual. Do you have?

In two weeks I will drop the trunny e pull out block and transmission through the bottom and raise the car.
Will these photos help you?

 

[MotorMo]

In my experience its hard to build an engine and not go all the way. It looked like a part of your piston is missing near the rings, so you would need at least on new piston. If your piston looks like that, I'm guessing your cylinder wall is pretty scraped up as well. If you were to simply buy a 'cylinder honing tool at harbor freight' get some perfect 45 degree angle cross hatches, reinstall your pistons with new rings, I don't think you would be happy with the end result. Even if you were able to get the compression up enough to start it, I believe it would be a smoking engine with weak compression.
Another thought is, where did that chunk of piston go?My guess is the valves probably ate it, which usually mean bent and damaged valves.
When you had you head off, did you machine surface area flat and perform a vacuum test to see what the integrity of the valves were? maby better to spend $ on a different block....