A/C not working - please advise

yasen · Jun 3, 2010

RonJ said:
Fix the lack of power at terminal 3 of the clutch relay and then rerun Mode Test 2. Again, scout your local junk yards for a replacement hood fuse box. You must fix the known problem before doing anymore troubleshooting.

Good, I'll visit my local junk yard this weekend to get an under-hood fuse/relay box and will get back to you.
Thanks

yasen · Jun 6, 2010

RonJ said:
Fix the lack of power at terminal 3 of the clutch relay and then rerun Mode Test 2. Again, scout your local junk yards for a replacement hood fuse box. You must fix the known problem before doing anymore troubleshooting.

Hi,
I am testing a fuse box right now before I will go back to Mode 1/2 test again. I just got another fuse box from nearest junk yard. I didn't pay any attention, this box looks absolutely the same but it does not have a right top relay connector support at all, so I am going back to junk yard to find an absolutely the same model.I did try to connect this fuse box anyways just to see what is going to happen and it seems that I still don't have any voltage power on compressor clutch relay terminal 3. Is there any way I can check a cable which goes from this terminal on the relay for continuity? do you know what kind of cable is there and where it goes before I go to pickup another fuse box?
Thanks

RonJ · Jun 6, 2010

yasen said:
I did try to connect this fuse box anyways just to see what is going to happen and it seems that I still don't have any voltage power on compressor clutch relay terminal 3. Is there any way I can check a cable which goes from this terminal on the relay for continuity? do you know what kind of cable is there and where it goes before I go to pickup another fuse box?

See circuit diagram. Terminal 3 receives battery voltage through dash 10A fuse 14. Hence, there should be continuity between fuse 14 and terminal 3 of either the condenser fan relay or the clutch relay. Test results so far from your current hood fuse box indicate that you will measure continuity between fuse 14 and terminal 3 of the condenser fan relay but not of the clutch relay.

yasen · Jun 6, 2010

RonJ said:
See circuit diagram. Terminal 3 receives battery voltage through dash 10A fuse 14. Hence, there should be continuity between fuse 14 and terminal 3 of either the condenser fan relay or the clutch relay. Test results so far from your current hood fuse box indicate that you will measure continuity between fuse 14 and terminal 3 of the condenser fan relay but not of the clutch relay.

Hi RonJ,
I got an another fuse/relay box and will test it out today in the evening. In the morning I did a relay->fuse #14 continuity test on my old relay/fuse box. I took a fuse #14, condenser fan relay and compressor clutch relay out, set car to ON (II) position and it gave me a continuity between condenser fan relay terminal 3 and fuse #14 top pin connector only and absolutely nothing on compressor clutch relay test. Do you know what is the cable color comes out from fuse/relay box from compressor clutch relay terminal 3? I just want to test if it is a relay box problem by checking a continuity between switch which comes to the relay/fuse box and fuse #14
Thanks

RonJ · Jun 6, 2010

The test you did proves it's a hood fuse box problem. You can see that if you know how to read the circuit diagram.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
The test you did proves it's a hood fuse box problem. You can see that if you know how to read the circuit diagram.

Hi RonJ,
I did replace the fuse/relay box and the terminal 3 issue still exist, that means that the problem is not in the box itself. I am not sure but I assume that it could be the cable which goes from terminal 3 to fuse #14 in under-dash box.
There are 5 connection switches with lots of cables on the bottom of the hood fuse box, so if you can tell the color of the cable which is responsible for fuse #14 -> terminal 3 compressor clutch relay connection I can unplug the switch (plug) with this cable and check the cable itself for continuity. And if it will fail that will mean that the problem is not in the fuse box and not in the connection between fuse box and fuse #14 in under dash. What do you think?
Thanks

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

yasen said:
Hi RonJ,
I did replace the fuse/relay box and the terminal 3 issue still exist, that means that the problem is not in the box itself. I am not sure but I assume that it could be the cable which goes from terminal 3 to fuse #14 in under-dash box.
There are 5 connection switches with lots of cables on the bottom of the hood fuse box, so if you can tell the color of the cable which is responsible for fuse #14 -> terminal 3 compressor clutch relay connection I can unplug the switch (plug) with this cable and check the cable itself for continuity. And if it will fail that will mean that the problem is not in the fuse box and not in the connection between fuse box and fuse #14 in under dash. What do you think?
Thanks

All information you are requesing is shown in the circuit diagram.

I am concerned that you may not be testing the terminal 3 test correctly for voltage. I say this because you found that terminal 3 for the fan relay does have voltage, indicating that voltage from fuse 14 reaches the hood fuse box. Wires built into the hood fuse box branch to supply voltage from fuse 14 to either the fan relay or the clutch relay. Post pictures showing precisely how you are probing terminal 3 of each relay receptacle in the hood fuse box for voltage.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
All information you are requesing is shown in the circuit diagram.

I am concerned that you may not be testing the terminal 3 test correctly for voltage. I say this because you found that terminal 3 for the fan relay does have voltage, indicating that voltage from fuse 14 reaches the hood fuse box. Wires built into the hood fuse box branch to supply voltage from fuse 14 to either the fan relay or the clutch relay. Post pictures showing precisely how you are probing terminal 3 of each relay receptacle in the hood fuse box for voltage.

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

The problem is that you have terminals 3 and 4 reversed. You have been measuring voltage from terminal 4 rather than terminal 3. This happened because the diagram showing the positions of relay terminals 3 and 4 must be reversed in the hood fuse box socket. With that said, now you should measure voltages at all four terminals. Post the results.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
The problem is that you have terminals 3 and 4 reversed. You have been measuring voltage from terminal 4 rather than terminal 3. This happened because the diagram showing the positions of relay terminals 3 and 4 must be reversed in the hood fuse box socket. With that said, now you should measure voltages at all four terminals. Post the results.

Reversed? Strange, I was doing everything acording to this picture:

.....and by jumping terminal 2 and 3 on the condenser fan relay....fan works! anyways, on both relay (condenser fan and compressor clutch) there is a 12v on terminal 4:

Thanks

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

yasen said:
Reversed? Strange, I was doing everything acording to this picture:

.....and by jumping terminal 2 and 3 on the condenser fan relay....fan works! anyways, on both relay (condenser fan and compressor clutch) there is a 12v on terminal 4:

Thanks

You still fail to understand the simple error that you made. The diagram of the relay shows the terminal numbers on the RELAY itself, not on the relay socket/receptacle. Relay terminals 3 and 4 become reversed for the receptacle because you flip the relay upside down to insert it into the socket. Here's how to think about it. Where does relay terminal 3 plug into the hood fuse box socket? The answer is the socket terminal where you are now measuring voltage above in the pictures -- this is terminal 3 not terminal 4. Do you understand?

So the corrected results of your voltage tests are:
1) Terminal 1 in both the fan and clutch relay socket lacks battery voltage as expected.
2) Terminal 2 in both the fan and clutch relay socket has battery voltage as expected.
3) Terminal 3 in both the fan and clutch relay socket has battery voltage as expected.
4) Terminal 4 in the fan relay has battery voltage as expected; Terminal 4 in clutch relay lacks battery voltage as expected.

This tells you that the relay receptacles in the hood fuse box properly get voltage. Do you agree?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The next two tests are:
1) Unplug ECU connectors B and E, turn the key to ON(II), and then measure voltage at ECU connector pins B6 and E18 individually. There should be battery voltage.

2) Replug ECU connectors B and E and then unplug Multiplex Control Unit (MCU) connector E. With the key in ON(II), measure voltage at MCU connector pin E10. There should be 12V (or 5V).

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
You still fail to understand the simple error that you made. The diagram of the relay shows the terminal numbers on the RELAY itself, not on the relay socket/receptacle. Relay terminals 3 and 4 become reversed for the receptacle because you flip the relay upside down to insert it into the socket. Here's how to think about it. Where does relay terminal 3 plug into the hood fuse box socket? The answer is the socket terminal where you are now measuring voltage above in the pictures -- this is terminal 3 not terminal 4. Do you understand?

So the corrected results of your voltage tests are:
1) Terminal 1 in both the fan and clutch relay socket lacks battery voltage as expected.
2) Terminal 2 in both the fan and clutch relay socket has battery voltage as expected.
3) Terminal 3 in both the fan and clutch relay socket has battery voltage as expected.
4) Terminal 4 in the fan relay has battery voltage as expected; Terminal 4 in clutch relay lacks battery voltage as expected.

This tells you that the relay receptacles in the hood fuse box properly get voltage. Do you agree?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The next two tests are:
1) Unplug ECU connectors A and E, turn the key to ON(II), and then measure voltage at ECU connector pins B6 and E18 individually. There should be battery voltage.

2) Replug ECU connectors A and E and then unplug Multiplex Control Unit (MCU) connector E. With the key in ON(II), measure voltage at MCU connector pin E10. There should be 12V.

aaaaaaah, my bad. I did read this picture in the different way assuming that whatever is in the circle is a fuse box connector, not the fuse itself.....I am very and very sorry for confusing you.
OK, let's get back. First of all I will re-run the test you told me to run before:

"Unplug the condenser fan relay in the hood fuse box, start the engine, and then jump terminal 2 to terminal 1 in the hood fuse box socket with a jumper wire. Does the condenser fan run? Then jump terminal 3 to terminal 1 and check for the same result."

Second, for the MCU test you want me to run now (#2) I do have a connectors diagram you gave me before so I know where connector E is and where pin E10.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wLCc6cdE13M/TA0m37aqLmI/AAAAAAAAKSQ/2DGhwday3L0/s512/picture_4931.jpg
Do you have have the same connectors diagram related to the ECU as I need to know there connectors A and E are and where B6 and E18 pins.
P.S. ECU as MCU connectors are in the underdash fuse/relay box, right?
Thanks

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

yasen said:
Do you have have the same connectors diagram related to the ECU as I need to know there connectors A and E are and where B6 and E18 pins.
P.S. ECU as MCU connectors are in the underdash fuse/relay box, right?
Thanks

The diagram below shows the ECU location and the pinouts of the ECU connectors. Be sure to verify that the correct wire colors pin to the terminals where you are measuring voltage.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
The diagram below shows the ECU location and the pinouts of the ECU connectors. Be sure to verify that the correct wire colors pin to the terminals where you are measuring voltage.

Just to make sure, all connectors I have to test are in the underhood fuse/relay box for both MCU and ECU, right (I am not testing MCU in fuse box and ECU in behind glove box area).
And I am testing a connector/switch not the termial port in the fuse/relay box!
P.S. again, I just everything to be perfect and I want to avoid misunderstanding so the "terminal #3" situation is not going to happen again :-).
Will do all this this afternoon.
Thanks

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

yasen said:
Just to make sure, all connectors I have to test are in the underhood fuse/relay box for both MCU and ECU, right (I am not testing MCU in fuse box and ECU in behind glove box area).
And I am testing a connector/switch not the termial port in the fuse/relay box!
P.S. again, I just everything to be perfect and I want to avoid misunderstanding so the "terminal #3" situation is not going to happen again :-).
Will do all this this afternoon.
Thanks

The ECU connectors that you need to test are plugged into the ECU below/behind the glove box.

The MCU connector is plugged into the MCU in the dash fuse box area.

You will be measuring voltage at the indicated terminals in each wire harness connector.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
The next two tests are:
1) Unplug ECU connectors A and E, turn the key to ON(II), and then measure voltage at ECU connector pins B6 and E18 individually. There should be battery voltage.

2) Replug ECU connectors A and E and then unplug Multiplex Control Unit (MCU) connector E. With the key in ON(II), measure voltage at MCU connector pin E10. There should be 12V (or 5V).

Here is a question.....I can do test E10 pin on MCU as I am going to unplug A and E connectors, but how you want me to test B6 pin of ECU when for ECU test I have to unplug A and E connectors and not B connector?

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

yasen said:
Here is a question.....I can do test E10 pin on MCU as I am going to unplug A and E connectors, but how you want me to test B6 pin of ECU when for ECU test I have to unplug A and E connectors and not B connector?

I don't understand your question.

Don't remove the MCU connector when you do the ECU connector tests or vice versa.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
I don't understand your question.

Don't remove the MCU connector when you do the ECU connector tests or vice versa.

I mean to test pin B6 when I do ECU connector test i need to unplug B connecetor, rught! But you said to unplug A and E only.

RonJ · Jun 7, 2010

yasen said:
I mean to test pin B6 when I do ECU connector test i need to unplug B connecetor, rught! But you said to unplug A and E only.

Typos now corrected. I meant connector B not A.

yasen · Jun 7, 2010

RonJ said:
Typos now corrected. I meant connector B not A.

gotcha....I am going to test it right now...going to have my lunch in the car :-)

A/C not working - please advise

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