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Best Engine swap

Discussion in 'Engine Tech / Drivetrain' started by ch3ch3, Jun 25, 2010.



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  1. ch3ch3

    ch3ch3 Ch3Ch3

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    Im a Noobie welcome me lol :p I Just Bought a 96 civic and i've fallen in love with the street racing lifestyle and love civics to death anyways im new and all but was looking into swaps i read that the type R from integra and the h22a from the prelude were the best simple swaps for a civic but after registering to the site i saw that the nsx engine is actually more powerful than the other two my question is has anyone ever done this swap and any advice on whihc engine would give me the most juice for my civic lend your knowledge
     
  2. 2NRSTV

    2NRSTV Team Exile/ADO Garage Registered VIP

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    That's kind of a broad question to ask. It depends highly on what you plan on doing to the engine and what you plan on doing with the car. Anybody who gives you a definitive answer right now wouldn't know their head from their ass.

    Honda makes about 60 D-Series Engines, 28 B-Series Engines, 13 H-Series Engines, 21 K-Series Engines, 17 F-Series Engines, 11 C-Series Engines, and 25 J-Series Engines.

    All of which will have their pros and cons... especially after modifying the engine.

    So the first thing you need to decide what is more important to you: Horsepower or Torque. Do you plan on turbocharging the car? Supercharging? Leaving Naturally Aspirated? Will it be a Drag Car or AutoXer? What is your Budget? How much do you know about engines (especially if attempting the swap yourself)?

    Note: Here are some examples.
    The Honda Type R Engine comes in 2 forms the B18C5 (USDM) and the B18CR (JDM). The C5 is an easier swap into your car. The CR will have more power but at the cost of being a pain in the ass to swap. Also, Type-R Engines will have higher compression ratios compared to the GSR and LS engines (this is the source of their power; higher compression) and will be harder to tune compared to the LS and GSR engines. Also, the LS engine, lacking V-TEC, will not have as many oiling dips and spikes compared to the V-TEC engines when under high boost. So a better NA motor would be a GSR or Type-R engine while a better Turbo Engine would be an LS.
     
  3. Kim Jong Illin'

    Kim Jong Illin' medium raw

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  4. WalkingComplex

    WalkingComplex Stock As All Hell Registered VIP

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    2NRSTV, God Damn. That is some good s**t. If it wasn't too long, that would be sig worthy. OP, listen to him.
     
  5. livgone01

    livgone01 New Member

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    depends much on the final upgrades you would be making and the purpose of each of them. so some upgrades in the 92 integra and one has to be very careful about the exact utility of each otherwise a mismatch could let to serious issues.
     
  6. ch3ch3

    ch3ch3 Ch3Ch3

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    thnx for all the feedback no i am not attempting to do the swap myself im not afraid to say im not that advanced i can do some auto work but not that much i am however going to take this stuff serious and want to learn more about building engines etc because every1 knows its easy to spend a good deal of money in this obession we all share hobby isnt the word for me i love street cars and readin how much some of you know about these cars i know you feel the same i just wanna know which engine will make my civic fastest between b18c5 or h22a and yes i plan on turbo chargin it whats the pros and cons
     
  7. recks

    recks New Member

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    h22 is extremely heavy compare to the b18 id go b18 h22 has been made obsolete specially with the introduction to the k20 and k24
     
  8. 2NRSTV

    2NRSTV Team Exile/ADO Garage Registered VIP

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    In my opinion, you should go to a B-series engine. Since you're new, and don't know that much about working on cars, a B-series engine would be your best bet seeing as you can still utilize the same Haynes or Chilton's manual without having the headache of having to have 2 manuals open at the same time trying to figure out which system is failing (the Civic components or the RSX or whatevers components). Also, the B-series can be swapped in without doing major cutting and welding to get it to mount up and can be upgraded later to another engine once you are more experienced with cars. For the K-Series engine, you will need to cut the driver-side mount to put in a new mount made specifically for the swap. Also, even with little experience, it is possible to swap a B-series engine, like the B18C1 or C5, into your Civic. Especially since the car you are starting with already has V-TEC wired. Keep in mind that Honda primarily makes it's power through higher compression ratios so the top end model engines have a harder time accepting boost than the lower end model engines.

    This being said, the B18C5 has a 10.6:1 Compression Ratio. Not bad, but still pretty high. I would suggest the B18C1 for boost with a compression ratio of 10:1. This will make the engine a little more reliable and keep you away from detonation issues that may arise.

    H-Series possibilities for you would most likely be the black tops. The H22A is a the Japanese and Euro version that comes in either a "Red Top" or "Black Top". Keep in mind that the Red Top H22A engines have 220HP but also have a Compression Ratio of 11:1 and the Black Tops have a Comp Ratio of 10.6:1.
    The H22A4 is the North American Version and can be found in the 5th Generation Preludes in both the Base Model and the Type-SH. They produce 197HP and have a Comp Ratio of 10.6:1.
     
  9. ch3ch3

    ch3ch3 Ch3Ch3

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    man you know your shyt =) thnx alot only one thing would help me if youd be so kind guys to shed some light when he said " Keep in mind that Honda primarily makes it's power through higher compression ratios so the top end model engines have a harder time accepting boost than the lower end model engines" what exactly does it mean have a harder time?
     
  10. 2NRSTV

    2NRSTV Team Exile/ADO Garage Registered VIP

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    Well, compression is the amount the fuel and air mixture is compressed in the cylinder when the piston moves up. Putting a turbo on a car pre-compresses the air before it reaches the cylinders. So when the piston starts moving up, the air inside the cylinder is already compressed. This air is also very hot due to heat transfer from the exhaust side of the turbo to the intake side. So you have very hot air that is now being compressed making it even hotter. If the compression is too high, the heat from the compression process can cause pre-ignition. This is like beating your piston with a sledge hammer.
     
  11. ch3ch3

    ch3ch3 Ch3Ch3

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    o My daT dosent sound to healthy for my civic well i did my homework and i found that theres a 200hp h22a usdm engine found in 99-01 prelude models with a 10:1 ratio so im gettin same hp that i would from a type r but with a lower compression ratio which is good for turbo now what id like to know is whats the pros n cons with Naturally aspirated vs. turbo chargerd
     
  12. vjf915

    vjf915 New Member Registered VIP Registered OG 5+ Year Member

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    I personally think if you plan on boosting.....reliably, you should stay away from the higher end engines. As stated by 2NRSVt, these engines use high compression to make their power. One would normally put in lower compression pistons when boosting a car. If you were to take a B18C5 and lower the compression......the only difference between that B18C5 and an LS is a little bit of head work, and a couple thousand dollars. If you are going for an NA setup, a C5 would be great right out of the box. But since you are upgrading, I think your money would be better spent on an LS. It has the same displacement, and then you can take the head and work it the way YOU want it. I also think that you really should research A LOT about the different benefits of each engine before you even think about doing a swap. It is a big undertaking, and you should really know what you are doing.


    Edit: Again, you should really be researching this yourself. If we spoonfeed you everything, you likely will not end up getting what you want. The basics of turbo vs. NA. NA you dont have to wait for your power, however it costs much more to make the same horsepower that a turbo could bring you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2010
  13. WalkingComplex

    WalkingComplex Stock As All Hell Registered VIP

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    1. Gas Mileage, turboed gets worse mpg than N/A
     
  14. ch3ch3

    ch3ch3 Ch3Ch3

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    thnx for da knowledge every1 is very helpful so another quick question which would you drive in a race a b18c1 with turbo or a h22a with 220 hp both with every possible less harmful upgrade??ive heard ppl claim to havy dyno readings of 400hp in a civic how is this possible??
     
  15. WalkingComplex

    WalkingComplex Stock As All Hell Registered VIP

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    I'd take the h22a.

    As for the heavy dyno reading Civics, Im not totally sure but a higher psi can really widen the gap of hp on a turboed car.
     
  16. 2NRSTV

    2NRSTV Team Exile/ADO Garage Registered VIP

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    Pros of Naturally Aspirated:
    Better throttle response in lower RPM's
    Less fuel consumed for power
    Lower engine bay temperature
    More stable oiling delivery at high RPM

    Naturally Aspirated Cons:
    Less power output compared to turbo engines
    No cool blow-off valve or wastegate noises

    Turbo Pros:
    Higher power output potential
    Better throttle response in Higher RPM's
    Cool wastegate hiss at peak boost
    Cool blowoff "PSSHT", shudder, and even the notorious "Duck Call" noise when letting off gas.

    Turbo Cons:
    Oil delivery spikes and dips at higher RPMS and during V-TEC engagement
    More fuel consumed
     
  17. WalkingComplex

    WalkingComplex Stock As All Hell Registered VIP

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    2NRSTV, don't forget about the turbo-whistler. lol.
     
  18. ch3ch3

    ch3ch3 Ch3Ch3

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    lol thnx 2NRSTV for the personal admiration of the different noises ok so im thinking turbos diff the way to go but now i have a new question in my head lets say i had an b18c1 engine n im racing some one with same enigne same car and other parts that could give me the edge in my vehicle
     
  19. 2NRSTV

    2NRSTV Team Exile/ADO Garage Registered VIP

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    Yeah, I've seen B16 Powered civics with 16psi make about 450HP... the same car also spun the rollers at a about 700HP at about 25psi. I think it was in an Import Tuner a couple years back.

    I've also seen D-Series turbo Civics make 450HP when I was hanging out at a shop in the Bay Area. Don't know exactly what he had or what psi or what his boost taper was but I do know he had GSR plugs.
     
  20. NOFX

    NOFX I'm NOT eran! Registered VIP Registered OG 5+ Year Member 10+ Year Member

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    First, since you mentioned it, I'd really recommend you shy away from "the street racing lifestyle". It's dangerous and stupid and filled with a bunch of morons. The Fast and the Furious series makes it seem even cooler, more intellegent and organized than reality.

    Your main choices for a swap into a '96 Civic will be the following:

    Code:
    [B]B16A2[/B]
    1.6L DOHC VTEC
    '99-'00 Civic Si / '96-'97 del Sol VTEC
    160 hp / 111 lb-ft
    
    [B]B16A3[/B]
    1.6L DOHC VTEC
    '94-'95 del Sol VTEC
    160 hp / 118 lb-ft
    
    [B]B16B[/B]
    1.6L DOHC VTEC
    '97-'00 Civic Type R (Japan)
    182 hp / 118 lb-ft
    
    [B]B18B1[/B]
    1.8L DOHC non-VTEC
    '94-'01 Integra GS/LS/RS
    142 hp / 127 lb-ft
    
    [B]B18C[/B]
    1.8L DOHC VTEC
    '95-'99 Integra SiR/SiR II/SiR-G
    178 hp / 128 lb-ft
    
    [B]B18C[/B]
    1.8L DOHC VTEC
    '95-'00 Integra Type R
    197 hp / 127 hp
    
    [B]B18C1[/B]
    1.8L DOHC VTEC
    '94-'01 Integra GS-R
    170 hp / 128 lb-ft
    
    [B]B18C5[/B]
    1.8L DOHC VTEC
    '97-'98, '00-'01 Integra Type R
    187 hp / 131 lb-ft
    
    [B]B20B[/B] (also a JDM engine is called this, but includes the B20Z spec engine as well)
    2.0L DOHC
    '97-'08 CR-V
    146 hp / 133 lb-ft
    
    [B]B20Z[/B]
    2.0L DOHC
    '99-'00 CR-V
    145 hp / 131 lb-ft
    
    [B]D16Y8[/B]
    1.6L SOHC VTEC
    '96-'00 Civic EX
    127 hp / 107 lb-ft
    
    [B]D16Z6[/B]
    1.6L SOHC VTEC
    '92-'95 Civic EX/Si
    125 hp / 105 lb-ft
    
    [B]H22A1[/B]
    2.2L DOHC VTEC
    '92-'95 Prelude VTEC
    187 hp / 158 lb-ft
    
    [B]H22A4[/B]
    2.2L DOHC VTEC
    '97-'01 Prelude Base/Type-SH
    197 hp / 196 lb-ft
    
    [B]H23[/B]
    2.3L DOHC
    '92-'96 Prelude Si/SE
    160 hp / 156 lb-ft
    B-series and D-series go in easiest. H-series need aftermarket mounts. I think they might need a bit more than that too.
    How old are you? I'd really recommend you learn more and possibly do thgis yourself if you're young. If you have money you're willing to just give away so someone else will put it in, then I guess I understand. An engine swap is a great learning experience though. That money you'd pay in labor could go toward parts instead.

    Remember Type R engines can be pricey.
    The H-series short block is 19 pounds heavier than a B-series shortblock. An H-series transmission is 6 pounds heavier than a B-series transmission.

    http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=684550
     


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