Where can I get the conversion harness and a PBD1 p28 ecu? I guess im in the market....
The ecu puts the car into closed/open loop not an O2 sensor. The only diffrence between narrow and wide band is the voltage range, narrow only uses a 0-1v range where wide uses 0-5v. you can bul semi acurate readings off a narrow band but not the best and thats why i said use it to get a basemap.93turbo16 said:I don't know where to start with the false hoods on this statement.
The narrowband does nothing more than put the car into closed loop and keeps the a/f around 14.7 as a target. That is NO WHERE NEAR tuned at WOT.
If you tune to 14.7 you car will run like complete ass and will more than likely blow up after repeated abuse at this a/f.
A target a/f for an all motor car is around 13.0-13.3 and boost more like 11.5-11.8 (on the safe side)
If you have no idea what you are doing, just take it to a shop that does. Tuning isn't something to mess with if you don't know exactly what you are doing.
Also for clarity. Crome has an auto tune feature. It uses a WIDEBAND signal to auto tune the maps, and honestly that isn't the best thing either. It gives you rough maps and jagged lines even with the smoothing feature. I do everything by hand, and it give you a much smoother map.
I don't even use auto tune on my AEM EMS, a good tuner can work without an auto tune feature.. but I will say it is nice to get a base for driveability.
actually the p72 isBlazed said:p28 is an obd1 ecu closest to ur needs...
The ecu can't do s**t without a narrow band O2 sensor, that is what puts it into closed loop.. but yes you do have to have the ecu look for the O2 also. There are two components.io_303 said:The ecu puts the car into closed/open loop not an O2 sensor. The only diffrence between narrow and wide band is the voltage range, narrow only uses a 0-1v range where wide uses 0-5v. you can bul semi acurate readings off a narrow band but not the best and thats why i said use it to get a basemap.
target A/F for ideal combustion is 14.7 for gas, its stoichiometric 13 is used as a buffer area on na cars and 12.5 is used for turbo, giving a little room for f**kups. http://www.cdxetextbook.com/fuelSys/gasoline/fund/05.html
For better clarity yes crome uses a wideband but turboedit, uberdata, and BRE use a narro signal to on their autotune. I can even go get the formula they use to do it if you want.
Open and closed loop is controled based on engin temp and throttle. Open loop is when your ECU is running off maps, and that is at Idle and 3/4 to WOT at temp. Closed loop is at crusing or slight accel and the O2 detrmines your fuel delivery and ignores the maps.93turbo16 said:The ecu can't do s**t without a narrow band O2 sensor, that is what puts it into closed loop.. but yes you do have to have the ecu look for the O2 also. There are two components.
14.7 is ideal for most conditions, but not WOT. If it is ideal for WOT then why is it not tuned to? I am not saying it isn't stoich.. I know it is. BUt don't go telling people to tune to 14.7
I know the formulas as well, and they don't use an auto tune for uberdata. Where did you get that from? The only auto tune feature they use has a spread sheet on Excel, and guess what last time I checked the formulas to datalog Narrowband on uberdata didn't work.
you cannot use a narrowband to auto tune anything. You just can't.. the voltage signals like you said are way to short, and are only accurate from like 14.1-14.9 or so. They can't do anything on either side of that.
I know how it works. And closed loop is used at idle as well. Go into open loop without an O2 sensor and see what happens.io_303 said:Open and closed loop is controled based on engin temp and throttle. Open loop is when your ECU is running off maps, and that is at Idle and 3/4 to WOT at temp. Closed loop is at crusing or slight accel and the O2 detrmines your fuel delivery and ignores the maps.
How does stoich change at WOT it dosent. Ideal combustion is always going to happen at 14.7 regardless of engine speed. Now like i said most people tune lower beacuse rich is better than lean.
yes you can auto tune with a narrow band, it is done all the time, not using the voltake values but how long it dwells at eather end(rich/lean), pulse width of the injectors, map readings(or maf), and engine RPMs
first the ECU wont go into closed loop without an O2 sensor present. It will just throw a code and run maps all the time.93turbo16 said:I know how it works. And closed loop is used at idle as well. Go into open loop without an O2 sensor and see what happens.
Oh and i never said 14.7 wasn't stoich at wide-open throttle. I was more getting at the targets at which to tune to.
Eh there is no point in arguing this out. It doesn't matter one bit either way.
I am still gonna stand by the no auto tuning with a narrowband, it is not accurate enough to do so. Now if you are refering to O2 feedback and closed loop as auto tuning, then yes. But other than that, it just can't with a narrrowband sensor.
Link me to BRE's auto tune. I use it as well, but haven't in a while.
BTW this is pulled right from Ben's how to guide.
"BRE supports real-time AutoTune. To use this you must have the datalogger open, and a properly setup wideband o2 sensor run into your ECU. BRE needs to know the afr in order to do this. Using the real-time AutoTune feature is very easy. All you need to do is hit Ctrl+Shift+R (or click the Logger->Start Real-Time AutoTune menu item) with the logger running."
You don't get my point. Leave your O2 sensor in there. And turn it off, and see the differences. But you can't because you aren't using a wideband right?io_303 said:first the ECU wont go into closed loop without an O2 sensor present. It will just throw a code and run maps all the time.
As for the auto tune, I use the datalogging and then adjust maps using its sugested values. I know its not realtime(I dont have the equipment) but it will sugest better values. They are rough like I said but it can do it. My car has since been tuned with a 5-gas, but thats how i got my basemap. But i did just go read more, and it says it wouldent work with narrow...but it kinda dfid...It got me running better and the values when i got hte wideband werent far off of my target. Oh well
no Mr. Smartass p28 is...p72 is really only compatible with gsr's due to the IAB...Shiznit said:actually the p72 is
Not true. You can run either one. THe P72 has a knock board that the P28 doesn't. You don't have to run the IABs. You can run a P72 on a SOHC vtec if you wanted to. It doesn't matter.Blazed said:no Mr. Smartass p28 is...p72 is really only compatible with gsr's due to the IAB...
b16 doesn't have a dual runner inatke manifold 8)
Blazed said:no Mr. Smartass p28 is...p72 is really only compatible with gsr's due to the IAB...
b16 doesn't have a dual runner inatke manifold 8)
yeh only if u can't find a p72io_303 said:the p28 can run the IABs if it is chipped right, and you mod the ecu
http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/WebHome?topic=AddIABToP28