D16y8 Turbo Choice?

[daperez13]

Hey guys,

A buddy of mine is looking to get into some autocross and light drag racing. He wants to keep the motor (D16Y8) on his 2000 EX stock for now but plans to upgrade pistons and rods later, maybe some mild head work. He's trying to piece a nice turbo kit together and just wants some advice on the best possible turbo for his current needs. His power goals are between 180 and 220 hp with a quick spooling turbo. He currently has:

Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
RC 550 injectors
Greddy Type-RS BOV
Tial 38mm wastegate
eBay intercooler with 2.5" piping
AEM adjustable cam gear
P28 with Hondata S300
T3/T4 (A/R .70 cold and A/R .63 hot)

He wants to retain power steering and A/C so he'll be going with a log-style manifold. He's budget for just the turbo is between $200 - $500. The purpose of this build is to attain more horse power while maintain a street/track car. He's not looking to build a high hp motor nor will it be a daily driver, just a fun weekend car.

In my opinion, the T3/T4 is too big for a D16 but this is where you guys come in...

Thanks

 

[Diana Nam]

that turbo deff is to big for the setup your looking for better to go with gt25 or gt28(aka disco potato turbo) your turbo A/R are the same as my and i have gt35r turbo or you can even us 14b turbo(stock dsm turbo) or 16g both small and have very quick spool time which would be perfect match up with the log manifold

 

[dancam]

My brother and i put a t3/t4 on a 91 civic motor and it was way too big. Didnt start spooling untill about 4000rpm and we couldnt handle much boost with our setup (8psi i think) so when accellerating you would have no power, no power, no power, all your power at once and then shift after 1 1/2 seconds, no power, no power, all your power then shift right away, no power, no power.... It sucked and its hard on parts to shock everything with a sudden surge of power like that all the time. Much better to have a turbo thats matched to the car and gives you a wide power band. You want a wide power band over power spikes. Power surges/spikes break parts. And why have a turbo that wants to make 40 psi when all you need is 10?
For both road racing and drag you will want a smaller turbo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diana Nam]

you need equal length tubular manifold to spool those turbos like these. log manifold can't flow enough exhaust gases to spool the turbo fast enough just down size to gt 25 or gt28 or even a 50 trim is good.
this is my setup and my gt35r i'll be at full boost by 35oo rpm ish


thats the T04S ported shroud compressor housing with is also .70 a/r

 

[daperez13]

My brother and i put a t3/t4 on a 91 civic motor and it was way too big. Didnt start spooling untill about 4000rpm and we couldnt handle much boost with our setup (8psi i think) so when accellerating you would have no power, no power, no power, all your power at once and then shift after 1 1/2 seconds, no power, no power, all your power then shift right away, no power, no power.... It sucked and its hard on parts to shock everything with a sudden surge of power like that all the time. Much better to have a turbo thats matched to the car and gives you a wide power band. You want a wide power band over power spikes. Power surges/spikes break parts. And why have a turbo that wants to make 40 psi when all you need is 10?
For both road racing and drag you will want a smaller turbo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I can see how it can get annoying and potentially damage parts, especially on the tranny. He has a 5-speed MT by the way. I doubt he would even consider going FI if he had an automatic.

 

[Diana Nam]

those d serise trans can't hold power at all i've blown 3 in the past when i had the d16y8 turbo in the same black civic that i have in the picture. aslo you don't have upgraded map sensor stock one are only good up to 10 psi and even then they still don't work as great

 

[daperez13]

you need equal length tubular manifold to spool those turbos like these. log manifold can't flow enough exhaust gases to spool the turbo fast enough just down size to gt 25 or gt28 or even a 50 trim is good.
this is my setup and my gt35r i'll be at full boost by 35oo rpm ish

That is a nice setup Diana, congrats on it. What kind of numbers and times are you pulling?

I'm with you guys on downsizing the turbo. We recently found a couple turbos that would potentially meet his goals.

Garrett GT25 A/R .60 cold, .80 hot. From an Isuzu 4HE1 diesel truck.
Garrett T25 A/R .80 cold, unknown hot. From a red top SR20DET.
Garrett / AiResearch T3 A/R .42 cold .48 hot. From a diesel Mercedes car.
Nissan T28 no A/R info on this one. From an RB20DET.

Any thoughts on these or opinions on a different one altogether?

 

[Diana Nam]

those are all good turbo my buddy has a tomei turbo which is just about same as gt28 it spools quick on his sr20 full boost by 3k rpm my setup is good for 600+ hp. but because i don't have a cage in the car fastest time i can pull withotu getting kick off the track is 11.0 flat but if i cage teh car i can compete in the 10.50 index class.
you can also use the turbos from some of toyota models supras, celicas, mr2, etc...

 

[nd4sped]

I have run the virtually all the small turbos from Mitsubishi and Nissan. The best ones were the T28 variations from both Mitsu and Nissan. They would spool exceptionally fast and wouldn't get outside of their efficiency limit around 7000 rpm. After that you could feel the powerband really begin to drop off as the rpm went up and the turbo was outside the top of the efficiency map.

You really need to study up on boost maps and and see how much CFM the D16 puts out. You can figure out where the sweet spot on the boost map is and match it to your rpm scale. This way you are consistently utilizing the turbo where its efficiency is best.

you can also use the turbos from some of toyota models supras, celicas, mr2, etc...

Avoid the supra turbos, the ceramic turbine wheels are known to cause problems when they get mid to high miles and general have been beat to s**t.

 

[dancam]

Avoid the supra turbos, the ceramic turbine wheels are known to cause problems when they get mid to high miles and general have been beat to s**t.

[emoji33] people dont beat on supra's! What are you talking about?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

That Isuzu turbo has a very odd flange, wouldn't bother with it.

The TD05 family (14b,16g) will suit your needs very well.

 

[mc360]

If his goals are only 220whp why put rods and pistons in, is this just a starting point? My vote is for a t3 60 trim .42ar .48ar, that air research you listed is pretty similar probably. My car makes 222whp 177tq and max boost of 8 psi by about 3500rpm (depending on gear and speed it can be sooner or later but 3500 is average). Depending what kind of money your friend has he could go with a twin scroll turbo but then that requires a custom manifold and two external wastegate but you can run a much larger turbo and have it spool like a smaller turbo (the lancer evolution turbos are an example).

A t28 is probably the best bet for quick spool but only if his overall goal is less than 250hp, I believe the garrett gt28 are a t28 size turbo with a t3 flange which is your best bet because most manifold options for civics are t3 flanged and adapters make the turbo to low.

 

[nd4sped]

That Isuzu turbo has a very odd flange, wouldn't bother with it.

The TD05 family (14b,16g) will suit your needs very well.

I cut them off and weld on T25/T28 flanges to fix that issue.

 

[daperez13]

If his goals are only 220whp why put rods and pistons in, is this just a starting point? My vote is for a t3 60 trim .42ar .48ar, that air research you listed is pretty similar probably. My car makes 222whp 177tq and max boost of 8 psi by about 3500rpm (depending on gear and speed it can be sooner or later but 3500 is average). Depending what kind of money your friend has he could go with a twin scroll turbo but then that requires a custom manifold and two external wastegate but you can run a much larger turbo and have it spool like a smaller turbo (the lancer evolution turbos are an example).

A t28 is probably the best bet for quick spool but only if his overall goal is less than 250hp, I believe the garrett gt28 are a t28 size turbo with a t3 flange which is your best bet because most manifold options for civics are t3 flanged and adapters make the turbo to low.

The max whp goal is about 220 at this point, so I think you're right on the money with this suggestion. Pistons and rods are plans for the future in case he decides to upgrade the turbo and boost more. Right now, the primary goal is to get a nice clean turbo setup that will yield more power within the block's stock limits but perform as efficiently as possible. Of course, this all depends on the tune, which by the way, will be performed by a very reputable shop here in So Cal.

It seems as though the T3 (.42/.48) and a T28 are amongst the most popular choices for the D-series engine. What size A/R's would you recommend for the T28?

 

[XpL0d3r]

Moved to forced induction section

 

[nd4sped]

220HP, stick to the stock internals. They can more than handle the power output you're looking for.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

I cut them off and weld on T25/T28 flanges to fix that issue.

Seems like more of a hassle than just picking up the normal t25/t28 to begin with.

 

[nd4sped]

Seems like more of a hassle than just picking up the normal t25/t28 to begin with.

When I used to do this s**t for a living I had a vast assortment of industrial and specialized tools. So cutting through any kind of steel really wants an issue. Sometimes I regret selling almost all of it, most of all was my Miller Syncrowave 200. Absolutely loved that welder.

No biggie, now that I bought a house I have plenty of space for all that stuff. Just have to find it on craigslist all over again. The welder I bought new from Arcet.

 

[Diana Nam]

When I used to do this s**t for a living I had a vast assortment of industrial and specialized tools. So cutting through any kind of steel really wants an issue. Sometimes I regret selling almost all of it, most of all was my Miller Syncrowave 200. Absolutely loved that welder.

No biggie, now that I bought a house I have plenty of space for all that stuff. Just have to find it on craigslist all over again. The welder I bought new from Arcet.

damn you should of kept the welder...

stock d16 can handle 350-400 hp on stock block and bottom end but all tho 400 hp is pretty close to its marginal line.

 

[daperez13]

Well, I don't think we want to push 350, let alone 400 HP through the stock block. Consensus says between 200 - 240 max and that's pushing it...I tend to agree.

I started to read and study compressor maps and this is what I came up with for the D16Y8 on a T3 60-Trim. If anyone can verify this, I would really appreciate it (please see picture attached) because that means we should be on our way to picking the right turbo.

T3 60-Trim (.42/.48) @ 10lbs of boost would fit our 200 HP goal perfectly and still have a little room to grow. According to the map, this turbo is capable of 300 HP. We only have access to 91 octane here in So Cal but I don't think it'll be a problem, we can add a MLS head gasket to help lower compression a little bit, if necessary. I'm sure similar-sized turbos will have similar results, so the question will come down to price over condition of the turbo. Thanks again!