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Honda Newb with timing and speedometer issues

Discussion in '6th Generation Honda Civic (1996-2000)' started by mrbigA47, Sep 24, 2017.



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  1. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    My first attempt at DIY with a Honda was an engine swap. I have a 97 Civic Non-VTEC DX 5MT (D16y7) and swapped the engine from a HRV automatic (D16W1). I used the Civic's manifolds (intake/exhaust), the accessories and wiring. Car runs well with the exception of a high idle. Initially, the car would surge at idle. I replaced the IAVC sensor and the engine stopped surging. I added a new TPS sensor and adjusted the throttle cable. Idle is still high. Timing was next. I verified the cam and crank position per the timing marks. I could not get the timing marks on the balancer to line up whether I advanced or retarded timing (maybe the two engines have balancers with different timing marks). Finally, I bled the cooling system of air. The high idle is still present, just not as high as it was previously.

    P.S.- I inserted a paperclip into the connection underneath the dash on the passenger side while setting timing. Nothing changed with the exception of my speedometer stopped working once I put the car back together. I verified the fuse in position #15. The fuse is good; however it is 20 vice 7.5 amp. Any help with these issues would greatly be appreciated.
     
  2. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    What ECU and transmission?
     
  3. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    5-speed MT. I am unsure about the ECU. I will assume its OEM.
     
  4. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    Why assume? Do you know whether a D16Y7 ECU would properly run a D16W1 engine? The answer may be crucial.

    Did the D16W1 engine run well prior to the swap?

    Have you checked for CEL codes?


    FYI:
    1. The service connector must be shorted and the engine must be idling to spec in order to check and adjust the base ignition timing.
    2. Having a 20A fuse installed where a 7.5A fuse belongs is fire hazard.
    3. A throttle cable adjusted too tightly can prevent the throttle plate from fully closing, and thereby cause a high idle.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  5. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    Appreciate your candor, but NO I did not check for compatibility first. The Japanese-direct parts place I purchased the engine from and my local Honda service department assured me that it would work. Where is the service connector and how do I access it? The throttle cable has been loosened already. Once I started it aftwr changing the IAVC, the engine revved up immediately. I will change the fuse shortly. Remember I represent NEWB to its fullest in the realm of HONDA. Broke several bolts reassembling the engine after checking the timing marks because I handled the Civic as I do my El Camino. So please keep breaking down your explanations in detail
     
  6. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    No CEL codes and per the distributor, the engine ran well while it was in service and was removed with less than 60K for shipping to the USA.
     
  7. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    I figured out what the service connector is. How do you replace it?
     
  8. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    Not sure what you mean.

    To pull the codes, short the two service connector pins, turn key to ON(II), and then watch the CEL blink the codes. Post a video of the blinking CEL if you don't know how to decode the blinks.

    Alternatively, plug a code reader into the OBD2 port to pull the codes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  9. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    You would only know if the CEL works. Does it?

    So are you running the engine with the P2E ECU that was stock in your Civic?
     
  10. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    Yes I am using the stock ECU. My Check Engine Light works. I had a few CEL codes after 1st startup. The last one went away after I installed the new IAVC.

    My replace comment was in response to you stating that my service connector had shorted out. That was the plug I stuck the paper clip in while attempting to adjust timing. The YouTube video I initially watched did not refer to the plug as a service connector. I googled it after your reply. Do I have to replace a fuse or entire ECU since the service connector may be shorted? After my timing attempt failed, my speedometer fluctuated and then died about 3 miles up the road once I left the shop.
     
  11. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    No. There's no fuse on the service connector circuit as both wires run directly to the ECU. The service connector is designed to be shorted.




    Check for corroded pins in the VSS connector atop the transmission.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  12. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    I will check the VSS sensor and replace the #15 fuse tomorrow. I shorted the service connector with a paper clip (CEL illuminated) and no adjustment to the distributor was able to align the balancer's timing marks with the engine cover's mark. Maybe I did it incorrectly. That's what prompted me to come here. I will check with the engine distributor to see if the D16y7 ECU will run the D16W1 engine properly as well
     
  13. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    If the engine was not also idling to spec, then you did the timing adjustment procedure incorrectly.
     
  14. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    I cleaned the VSS and my speedometer is working again. I also identified and corrected a small oil leak before it became a major problem. Thanks for the advice there.

    Now for the timing, am I supposed to warm the car, shut it off, short the service connector, restart and then adjust or leave it running, short then adjust? (I did the latter)
     
  15. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    Do you have a diagram of the fuse panel for a 97 Civic DX? I found one online; however I would like verification prior to swapping and removing fuses. Example, the diagram I found displayed fuse places that were not used; yet I have operable fuses in those places. So I am asking before I dig in.
     
  16. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    :thumbup:

    Correct but you first need to connect an external tachometer to accurately set the engine rpms (idle speed).
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  17. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    Download the 96-00 Civic factory manual. That and much more can be found there.
     
  18. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    Do I have to turn the car off before I short it?
     
  19. mrbigA47

    mrbigA47 New Member

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    The car does not idle as rough as it used to, but there is a slight "lope" to it at idle. So I verified my internal timing marks. Both marks on the cam sprocket, with the "UP" facing north, fall just beneath the timing marks (triangles) on either side of the engine. I am unable to have both marks line up perfectly simultaneously with the triangles; however the crank lines up perfectly with its timing mark. Is this correct?
     
  20. boofoo

    boofoo Respected Registered VIP

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    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017


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