Short Throw Install

[Luna.peter]

Ok, so just recently I became the proud owner of a new short throw shifter for my '97 civic lx, but I had some problems with install. Everything was going great, I was able to get off the linkage, and middle console. But when I had to take out a few bolts to remove the actual stock shifter, everything was so jam packed I could not get to them. Does anyone know a way around this? will i need to remove my exhaust? I would very much like to do this myself so I will not have to pay a butt load of cash for install.... THANKS!

 

[stolibears]

this may help, I didn't have to take out my muffler.
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=106789&highlight=skunk2+shifter

 

[PhntmSk8r]

The problem with short shifters:

The aftermarket wants you to believe that the solution to the problem is shifting faster. 'Short shifters' do this by decreasing the shift throw, allowing you to feel like you are shifting faster. In reality, the transmission regulates how fast you can shift, not the shifter. Shifting too fast causes synchro wear ('crunching' between shifts), and forcing the shifter into gear (easy to do on short shifters) bends or breaks the shift forks inside the transmission.

'Short shifters' are all shorter (height wise) than the stock shifter. While this may look 'cool' or give the illusion of 'performance', it is the furthest thing from the truth. The stock shifter is too far away from the steering wheel to provide proper shifting and steering techniques in the first place. So the worst thing to do is move the shifter even farther away from the steering wheel (with a shorter shifter).

Most all short shifters are made of aluminum. Aluminum is inexpensive and easy to manufacture, but it is soft and easily broken. There are many cases where even expensive short shifters from reputable companies shear off during shifts, in some cases causing over revving and engine damage. Check out the "big name" short shifter that sheared off at the threads below:


Steel is a better material due to its strength, and won't shear like aluminum short shifters. But steel short shifters still suffer the same basic design flaws as aluminum ones.

The other problem with aluminum is weight. Due to their lightness, aluminum short shifters transfer engine and transmission vibration directly to the driver. The stock shifter is made of steel, so its weight helps dampen the annoying vibrations and rattling expected with aluminum short shifters. A few steel short shifters are available, but again, all short shifters suffer the same basic design flaws.

Aluminum short shifters upset the counterbalance of the shift linkage. The shifter is connected to the transmission via the shift linkage, so when you shift you are moving both the shifter and the linkage. The stock shifter feels so smooth because its steel construction provides increased weight to counterbalance the weight of the linkage. Aluminum short shifters feel much worse because the weight balance of the shifter and the linkage has been upset. Shifting is now 'bottom-heavy' with a lighter shifter moving a heavier linkage.

Short shifters feel notchy, due to a combination of factors (weight, drastically shorter throw, etc). But another reason is the linkage bearings. Most short shifters use the same linkage bearings - metal 'roller blade' bearings that make shifts feel notchy and rough. Shift feel worsens as the bearings wear. The stock shifter uses rubber bushings that help dampen vibrations, but the rubber deforms easily and deteriorates quickly, making shifting very sloppy.



source:
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm

 

[knightxrider1]

^^ although true.. i love my B&M shifter... Its such a nicer feel.

And i did have to move my cat out of the way. it allowed more room to work w.

 

[rndmheroxx]

get the right tools......im not trying to be a d**k, but with the right tools you can do it, i think i did take one of the hangers out so my exhaust dropped a little bit, that helped

 

[BEAR_times]

Phantmsk8r Post

Damn, great short shifter knowlege. It seems that most stock civic shifting configuartions weren't made to handle some of our intentions. We all know that most civics are built with economy and reliabiliy in mind. However, It is a fact that the DC2 ITR was built as a "racing car for the streets". I was under the impression that OEM Integra Type-R short shifters were made to give an upgrade in shifting. How can a few websites contradict an engineered design as the short shifter. This is kinda like politics...
PS. Can anyone shed some light on [quality] steel short shifters.

 

[stolibears]

I've always taken any mod to make you go faster (shift faster in this case) with extreme scrutiny especially with out any numbers to back up such claims. The short shifter I have is made of steel with a weighted knob ;

"Skunk2 Racing short shifters are constructed from high-strength alloy steel for maximum durability and reliability. Unlike even the best aluminum shifters, Skunk2 Racing steel shifters will not break. The added weight of the shifter results in smoother and more positive shifting. Each short shifter utilizes sealed bearings and a low friction coating to ensure smooth motion without binding.(shift knob not included)"

source: http://www.skunk2.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SR&Product_Code=628-05-0100&Category_Code=FTSTS


I got my shifter not because of performance, but for personal preference. As the atop article states, "...short shifters transfer engine and transmission vibration directly to the driver.." ...and I like this. What bothers me the most about the article is that it is completely biased trying to to sell you another product so I dismiss most of where it makes it's claims.

 

[PhntmSk8r]

I got my shifter not because of performance, but for personal preference. As the atop article states, "...short shifters transfer engine and transmission vibration directly to the driver.." ...and I like this. What bothers me the most about the article is that it is completely biased trying to to sell you another product so I dismiss most of where it makes it's claims.

Its not completely biased until you get down to the steel vs. aluminum, and the height part.

All the other info is fact, and has been proven time and time again.

If it's your personal preference to destroy your tranny, more power to you


I'll admit i ran a short shifter at one point in time, i also went through 2 trannies while i had it. Since i've got rid of it, my shift times have improved (yes, thats right, i can shift FASTER now) and overall the shift is smoother/cleaner.

 

[stolibears]

Its not completely biased until you get down to the steel vs. aluminum, and the height part.

All the other info is fact, and has been proven time and time again.

If it's your personal preference to destroy your tranny, more power to you


I'll admit i ran a short shifter at one point in time, i also went through 2 trannies while i had it. Since i've got rid of it, my shift times have improved (yes, thats right, i can shift FASTER now) and overall the shift is smoother/cleaner.

damn, 2 trannies...ever consider getting an automatic?
I'm still not going to buy into the argument that all short shifers will ruin a good tranny. A quality short shifter shouldn't. The only difference is the throw of the gears since the shifter ball shaft is higher on the shaft. So I can see where a little more force has to be applied to shift into gear, but the shifter and the knob are heavier than then stock which counters this force. The height of the shifter is pretty much the same as stock, only the throw is shorter. People get this wrong all the time, short shifter doesn't really mean the actual shifter is shorter.

just sounds like you are hard on the stick...sort of speak I've had my short shifter in for almost 3 years now, no grinds or rattles coming out of my tranny so far.

find me an un-biased article and I might bite.

 

[PhntmSk8r]

Yep, you're absolutely right.

I just dont know how to drive

Since after i got rid of my short shifter (which is a different style for my car, than from a civic) i ran the same tranny for over a year without issues. Before hand i went through 2 GOOD trannies in 2 years.


Please do explain to me, how this is biased to the product in the link.

The aftermarket wants you to believe that the solution to the problem is shifting faster. 'Short shifters' do this by decreasing the shift throw, allowing you to feel like you are shifting faster. In reality, the transmission regulates how fast you can shift, not the shifter. Shifting too fast causes synchro wear ('crunching' between shifts), and forcing the shifter into gear (easy to do on short shifters) bends or breaks the shift forks inside the transmission.

I dont see any biased statement, considering they're selling a type of short shifter (which, i've driven a car with one, it IS a shorter throw than stock) so they're screwing themselves with this statement if what you're trying to argue is true. But hey, if you like being able to FEEL your syncros crunch between gears through your shifter, i guess thats your preference.

 

[9EK8]

drop the exhaust its so easly sfter that. but i had a prob cause my bearings in the shifter were diff sizes. i had to pop one out and put a skate board bearing in it.

 

[stolibears]

In reality, the transmission regulates how fast you can shift, not the shifter.

Really?? So if I shift into 2nd, it doesn't actually shift into 2nd until the transmission decides to? Are we still talking about a manual transmission? I know that the synchros in a tranny are supposed to guide the transfer in gears and I totally get the whole crunching deal if you force-ably shove the stick into a gear before the tranny is ready, but I still don't see why it would matter at that point what kind of shifter you have installed.

Shifting too fast causes synchro wear ('crunching' between shifts), and forcing the shifter into gear (easy to do on short shifters) bends or breaks the shift forks inside the transmission.

...could be said no matter what kind of shifter you have installed. The only real statement in the article that makes any sense.

 

[CrazyEM1]

If you are just looking to install the short shifter, yes, you will have to remove (or let hang) the middle section of the exhaust to get at the shifter from underneath. Its not hard. I just removed the 2 spring screws that connected my mid section to the cat and moved that aside with some 2x4 blocks to get at the shifter.

 

[9EK8]

that or you can just drop from the muffler back to the cat thats how i did it. i dont know wat way is easyier