'02 Civic Head Issue: Broken Cap

@Spooled@

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Update: Goal: Going to remove rocker assembly and hopefully maintain timing (if the cam stays put) so that I can get a replacement cam cap and make sure tolerances are good using methods of plastiguage, dial caliper, dial indicator, and machine shop approaches. Then putting everything back together and driving away :domollama:
If you just remove the one cam cap you have nothing to worry about as far as affecting the cam timing.
 

iSamoStefan

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If you just remove the one cam cap you have nothing to worry about as far as affecting the cam timing.
I feel like the belt tension on the cam pulley will try to pull the cam out of its home when I remove the caps.
 


HeX

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@iSamoStefan, I hope you don't mind I updated your title to be relevant to your issue so you get more helpful attention. There's alot of useful info in this thread, but a vague title only works against you as many members ignore the "help me" threads because usually they're not anything dire. You're one of the few exceptions.

Anyways, its good to read your on track to get this handled.
 

dancam

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The issue is if the cap is off centre towards the front of the engine or the back, or too high then you will have to machine the bottom of the cap before you can bore it which will weaken it as it will be smaller. Shouldnt be too big a deal, just make sure you dont take too much off or your oil clearance will be too large. There is a hole there for oil right?


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iSamoStefan

New Member
@iSamoStefan, I hope you don't mind I updated your title to be relevant to your issue so you get more helpful attention. There's alot of useful info in this thread, but a vague title only works against you as many members ignore the "help me" threads because usually they're not anything dire. You're one of the few exceptions.

Anyways, its good to read your on track to get this handled.
If you just remove the one cam cap you have nothing to worry about as far as affecting the cam timing.
If you just remove the one cam cap you have nothing to worry about as far as affecting the cam timing.
The problem with this is that the degrees of freedom of the #5 cap limits me from removing it and it alone. I would have to lift the rocker assembly up and the cap up off the head to be able to slide the #5 cap off. That is where my concern is - I might need someone to hold down the left side of the cam so that it doesn't move; or preferably a mechanism to hold it in place. If I don't, I am worried that the camshaft will get pulled by the belt tension on the right (cam pulley side), thus causing the left end of the camshaft to tip clockwise (relative to my 1st picture). Ultimately, I am direly trying to avoid re-timing the engine... Again..
 

iSamoStefan

New Member
The issue is if the cap is off centre towards the front of the engine or the back, or too high then you will have to machine the bottom of the cap before you can bore it which will weaken it as it will be smaller. Shouldnt be too big a deal, just make sure you dont take too much off or your oil clearance will be too large. There is a hole there for oil right?


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Yes, I believe there is. I won't know for certain until I take a look once I investigate at the junk yard.
 

@Spooled@

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Well either way aligning time is SUPER easy on Honda motors. No sweat man. Best of luck in your repair.
 

dancam

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The problem with this is that the degrees of freedom of the #5 cap limits me from removing it and it alone. I would have to lift the rocker assembly up and the cap up off the head to be able to slide the #5 cap off. That is where my concern is - I might need someone to hold down the left side of the cam so that it doesn't move; or preferably a mechanism to hold it in place. If I don't, I am worried that the camshaft will get pulled by the belt tension on the right (cam pulley side), thus causing the left end of the camshaft to tip clockwise (relative to my 1st picture). Ultimately, I am direly trying to avoid re-timing the engine... Again..
Arent there alignment marks by the cam and crank pulleys? Im sure there was... You just make sure the cam is right on it to start and still right there when your done.


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iSamoStefan

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Update: Got a replacement rocker assembly from the junk yard(see attached).

Now I need to find a way to replace the whole thing (looks in better condition than mine). Honestly, I will probably end up taking only the #5 cap and get it within spec and use it with my existing assembly.

Note: The camshaft did remain in place when removing the rocker assembly, so I will be able to keep engine timing while doing the repair! [emoji481]
 

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@Spooled@

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Replace only the individual cap. The caps and cylinder head are line honed so swapping another assembly on to your head is asking for trouble.
 

iSamoStefan

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Update: Plastigage'd both my original and the replacement #5 cap

The replacement cap was slightly tighter at 0.002 whereas my original had 0.003.
The operating range is 0.002 - 0.004 with a service limit of 0.006.

I hope that the 0.002 of the new cap (may be more like 0.0015 -0.002 based on size of plastigage marking) is not too tight?
The replacement cap along with the rocker assembly is at the machine shop getting cleaned up.
Tomorrow I will be putting it all back together and firing up the engine.

Please talk to me about oil clearances and issues related to journal clearances being too tight. Kinda worried.
Thanks!
 

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@Spooled@

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@iSamoStefan sounds like your are just fine for clearance and that's great news. What you can do is run the engine for a few hundre miles and then inspect the cap. Check for any gaulings caused by clearance or bore alignment issues with the camshaft.

If it all checks out then bolt it back down and let her eat.
 

dancam

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If your confident in your measurements there is no issue, its within spec. The problems would arise if it was less than 0.002 because it would wear quickly from lack of oil until it was within spec. Fine really except for the heat and metal shavings.
Or if it was greater than 0.006 then there would be too great a gap, the oil could just 'spill' out and parts could rub metal on metal. It would also be the path of least resistance and your oil pressure would drop as it all tried to flow out that one hole instead of all of them evenly.
But, if your measurements are correct there is no problem.


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iSamoStefan

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It's all back together now, come start the car for me, I'm too terrified to do it myself lol

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iSamoStefan

New Member
Well here is a video plus some pics of the cleaned up rocker assembly with oil thrown all over it.
I let it run for a short time, need about half a quart of oil. Also still kind of shaky about it not blowing up lol.



But ultimately....:party2:

I will keep the forum updated on the health of the engine.

Thank you to everyone who contributed!!!!!! Happy New Year ;)

 


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