apexi VAFC question



#2
NoWayBack91Si said:
I'm getting ready to buy a VAFC from my friend for like $150 and my question is what all does it do other than act as a vtec controller? Also is this the correct section to post?
yes, this is the correct section, i think. but it also acts as an air/fuel converter like you can adjust your correction (how much more/less fuel gets into the combustion chamber) as well as a vtec controller

ahh yes, you can also monitor your vac pressure, correction, throttle, revs, vto and vti also. i have one, and i still havent compeletely figured it out yet. so it may do more than i even know, but i think thats it
 

oc_civic

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#4
you will nto have any gains unless you get the car tuned on a dyno... and even then its a maybe...

it is generally only usefull if your current setup is out of spec due to things like cams.. forced induction... springs/retainers... built motor in general.. etc..
 

93turbo16

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#5
oc_civic said:
you will nto have any gains unless you get the car tuned on a dyno... and even then its a maybe...

it is generally only usefull if your current setup is out of spec due to things like cams.. forced induction... springs/retainers... built motor in general.. etc..
Not really. A stock motor can gain from a SAFC. The stock map isn't exactly optimal. But it is good enough for basic bolt ons is I guess what you are pointing at.

But if you are paying $150 for a SAFC, why not get a chipped ecu and get that tuned on the dyno. You are paying the same amount for tuning either way usually. And dynos operators don't care if you use a safc or tune a chipped ecu. It is the same price. =)
 

oc_civic

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#6
93turbo16 said:
Not really. A stock motor can gain from a SAFC. The stock map isn't exactly optimal. But it is good enough for basic bolt ons is I guess what you are pointing at.
you hit on on the head.. SURE it MIGHT pick up a BIT.. but enough to warrant the price? not IMO.. the need doesnt really arise till some more serious work is done.. i mean this is just my opinion.. and as you said.. YES i mean in reference to basic bolt ons.. and the factory settings being relatively good enough...
 
#8
oc_civic said:
you hit on on the head.. SURE it MIGHT pick up a BIT.. but enough to warrant the price? not IMO.. the need doesnt really arise till some more serious work is done.. i mean this is just my opinion.. and as you said.. YES i mean in reference to basic bolt ons.. and the factory settings being relatively good enough...
:werd: for the gains you get on a basically stock motor, its not worth the price. i just have one cuz i got it practically free :lol:
 

TurbodSi

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#9
i pretty much got mine for free also..i was told by the guy that is tuning the safc to my car, that the last safc hook up he did gave the guy 10-12 hp..it was also a honda..thats a descent gain for something that was pretty much givin to me!! but i heard that if you run the safc and vafc which i think is the piggy system when you have a turbo, that its not that great..is that true or not?
 

93turbo16

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#10
For just basic bolt ons, it can yield better numbers. And honestly I think for the price it DOES warrant getting it just for the little horsepower you pick up. What other devices gives you as much as getting your car tuned and is in the same price level.

And by price I mean something around $200. Including the afc and tuning on the street. Dyno would of course be a bit more.

Also the SAFC and VAFC are both stone age options for any engine management for a honda these days. It has all shifted to chipped ecus and the various rom editors out there. You can get them for pretty much the same price as the apexi units if you look around. And tuning is usually around the same for each.
 

oc_civic

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#11
93turbo16 said:
And by price I mean something around $200. Including the afc and tuning on the street. Dyno would of course be a bit more..
the only way you can "tune it on the street" is with a a/f gauge using a wideband o2 sensor .. which to my knowledge is pretty expensive.. there is no way to drive up and down the street and just guess the values..

adjusting the fueling of a car is ONLY usefull if you have a way to measure the combustion process..
 
#12
oc_civic said:
the only way you can "tune it on the street" is with a a/f gauge using a wideband o2 sensor .. which to my knowledge is pretty expensive.. there is no way to drive up and down the street and just guess the values..

adjusting the fueling of a car is ONLY usefull if you have a way to measure the combustion process..
thats what im doing. my friend has a wideband 02 setup on his turbo 3g eclipse, since he had an extra bung, i welded that into my downpipe and sometime this summer were gonna hook up his gauge to my car and tune it on the road.
 

TurbodSi

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#13
the guy that is tuning and dynoing my car is charging me $75 and around $100 to hook it up..he has one of the best shops in the area..ill post the dyno sheet when i get it done on the 6th so we can all see what kind of numbers its giving.
 

93turbo16

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#14
oc_civic said:
the only way you can "tune it on the street" is with a a/f gauge using a wideband o2 sensor .. which to my knowledge is pretty expensive.. there is no way to drive up and down the street and just guess the values..

adjusting the fueling of a car is ONLY usefull if you have a way to measure the combustion process..
Which to my knowledge is provided by the tuner. When someone comes to me, I hook up my own wideband on their car. I prefer a street tune for a street car that is just looking for some extra power. After you do enough of them you can just feel what a car needs just by riding along and checking plugs/datalogs.

And to my knowledge I didn't say anything about just driving it up and down the street and tuning it without a guage. I said that a "street tune" would be sufficient, which I would think a tuner would be in the car with a wideband.

But anyway, if you are getting a hook up on the dyno and the install of the part, you should see some decent gains from it. Another thing to look into would be a nice set of cam gears before you hit the dyno. There is always hidden power with some adjustments.
 

BuiltforSin

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#15
when you lower the vtec engagement point does it really even help you out that much if at all? I mean I would like to lower mine maybe to around 5300rpm [only 300rpm less] because if I remember right I think that's where I land when I shift around 6800rpm. and with me rockin a D I dont think it would very much at all. My friend has one on his EJ8 and it doesnt seem to have helped at all really.
 

oc_civic

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#16
93turbo16 said:
Which to my knowledge is provided by the tuner. When someone comes to me, I hook up my own wideband on their car. I prefer a street tune for a street car that is just looking for some extra power. After you do enough of them you can just feel what a car needs just by riding along and checking plugs/datalogs.

And to my knowledge I didn't say anything about just driving it up and down the street and tuning it without a guage. I said that a "street tune" would be sufficient, which I would think a tuner would be in the car with a wideband.

But anyway, if you are getting a hook up on the dyno and the install of the part, you should see some decent gains from it. Another thing to look into would be a nice set of cam gears before you hit the dyno. There is always hidden power with some adjustments.
i understand your intention.. but the word "street tune" is way over used on this site to denote just random adjustments on the street by the "feel" of the car... which obviously you understand why i would not advise...
 

93turbo16

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#17
oc_civic said:
i understand your intention.. but the word "street tune" is way over used on this site to denote just random adjustments on the street by the "feel" of the car... which obviously you understand why i would not advise...
Understandable. Wideband street tuning might be a better way to put it. =)
 
#19
SCCRules said:
when you lower the vtec engagement point does it really even help you out that much if at all? I mean I would like to lower mine maybe to around 5300rpm [only 300rpm less] because if I remember right I think that's where I land when I shift around 6800rpm. and with me rockin a D I dont think it would very much at all. My friend has one on his EJ8 and it doesnt seem to have helped at all really.
advancing your vtec engagement is not a good thing on a stock/bolt on car, it wont help, and theres a good chance you will actually lose power. but, people usually experience slight gains from retarding the crossover, which is what i did. i set it back to 6k and changed the correction a bit, the crossover is quite a bit more noticable now. but once i actually get the wideband and start tuning im probably going to put it back to stock (5500) i just did this because it was what i was told to do by some ppl on here. it is just something that you can do if your not doing a complete tune or if you dont have a gauge to work with

what i did was retard my vtec to 6000rpm and set my correction at a 4%-8% increase slope from 5500-7000 rpm. in other words, at 5500 my car adds 4% more fuel to the mixture, and it increases all the way up to 8% at 7000rpm
 




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