D16Y8 Low RPM Hesitation - Fine past 2500 RPM

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
Will just hit the local Honda dealer and get the O ring and try the swap. 3 bolts, 4 wires and clip is easy enough and I don't need a ton of down time to do it.

Essentially, it will fix the issue and I can look into replacing a faulty part, or the issue will remain saying it's not directly related to the distributor.

Will post all findings :thumbs up:
 

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
I had a very similar issue. Car ran like complete s*** below 3k, and past that ran perfectly okay. No CEL either.

The issue was with my primary o2 sensor. It was sending readings to the ECU still, but for whatever reason must have been off on lower RPMs. It was f***ing with my A/F ratio. It drove me nuts for a while. Not saying that this is your issue, but it's something to look in to.
Did you happen to unplug it and run the car with it disconnected? If so, how'd it run?

I unplugged my pre-cat O2 (disconnected it under the intake manifold) and loosely zip tied it to a nearby hose to keep it off the exhaust.

When I pulled out of the lot right after my CEL came on, it took off like a champ. The acceleration seemed really light and quick, like it wasn't really trying all the hard, just got up and went. This was before it was up to temp. Obviously my idle was crap, sat around 500 or less, felt like it was about to stall out.

Then it started to hesitate pretty heavily, worse than before. It seemed on and off though (some starts and accelerating was ok, some very sluggish), does that make any sense? I didn't launch it, since there's no issue there. Moderate take offs and accelerating in low rpms seemed really sluggish.

I only put 5 or so miles on it driving around on my lunch break and stopping at Honda for a distributor O ring. From a dead stop to 4th gear probably a dozen times. Since it's cooling down now, I'll check it again when I leave and drive home. I'm not sure what this is telling me to be honest.

Also, since I noticed my compression tester is gone forever, I ordered a new one so I can check that when it comes in and see what the story is there.
 

RonJ

Banned
If the problem continues with the engine warmed up and the primary O2 sensor unplugged, then the O2 sensor is not the cause of the problem. It's a straightforward test.
 


Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
If the problem continues with the engine warmed up and the primary O2 sensor unplugged, then the O2 sensor in not the cause of the problem. It's a straightforward test.
I would think. I didn't think I was getting straightforward results though. It just felt like the ECU was bouncing the fuel regulation around and I was either getting it right and it would take off or it would stumble over itself and bog out. More testing!

This may sound really stupid, I'm not sure how helpful it would be or if I'm an a*****e for not mentioning it sooner, but I use Torque on my Android tablet with an ODB2 plug, mostly for trouble codes, etc. Would pulling any info off of that be helpful in any way?
 

RonJ

Banned
I would think. I didn't think I was getting straightforward results though. It just felt like the ECU was bouncing the fuel regulation around and I was either getting it right and it would take off or it would stumble over itself and bog out. More testing!

This may sound really stupid, I'm not sure how helpful it would be or if I'm an a*****e for not mentioning it sooner, but I use Torque on my Android tablet with an ODB2 plug, mostly for trouble codes, etc. Would pulling any info off of that be helpful in any way?
There should be no bogging with the O2 sensor unplugged, so I assume that the problem continued.

Does Torque show pending codes or just real ones?
 

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
There should be no bogging with the O2 sensor unplugged, so I assume that the problem continued.

Does Torque show pending codes or just real ones?
Roger, I'll run it disconnected for the ride home and see how it does just to verify.

As for codes, Torque displays both. It shows "Current Faults" in red, and then "Pending Faults" in yellow. Like when the girlfriend's VSS threw a code, P0500 was current and P1399 was pending.

Mostly reason I asked is, it also let's me pull up different graphs and meters to check values for things like voltages, AFR (best it can I guess), and apparently ignition timing. I have to check it out a little more though and see specifically.

Regardless, I'll continue on with the O2 thing and see, will compression test when my tester arrives, and when I get a few hours I'll play musical distributors.

Has to be something. It's so subtle and annoying. It's like when your sock folds up under your foot while you're walking, no big deal but drives you f**king crazy.
 

XpL0d3r

I had a Civic once.
Staff member
Registered VIP
Registered OG
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Did you happen to unplug it and run the car with it disconnected? If so, how'd it run?
Nope. I had actually swapped o2 sensors with a known working one. Never ran it without one.

I unplugged my pre-cat O2 (disconnected it under the intake manifold) and loosely zip tied it to a nearby hose to keep it off the exhaust.

When I pulled out of the lot right after my CEL came on, it took off like a champ. The acceleration seemed really light and quick, like it wasn't really trying all the hard, just got up and went. This was before it was up to temp. Obviously my idle was crap, sat around 500 or less, felt like it was about to stall out.

Then it started to hesitate pretty heavily, worse than before. It seemed on and off though (some starts and accelerating was ok, some very sluggish), does that make any sense? I didn't launch it, since there's no issue there. Moderate take offs and accelerating in low rpms seemed really sluggish.

I only put 5 or so miles on it driving around on my lunch break and stopping at Honda for a distributor O ring. From a dead stop to 4th gear probably a dozen times. Since it's cooling down now, I'll check it again when I leave and drive home. I'm not sure what this is telling me to be honest.

Also, since I noticed my compression tester is gone forever, I ordered a new one so I can check that when it comes in and see what the story is there.
Your issue does seem a little different than mine actually. For me, babying it was fine, but giving it any sort of power caused it to run incredibly sluggish. And the issue was only occurring at low RPM's. As the RPM's got higher, it started running better. Past maybe 4k RPM's or so it ran perfectly.

It's like when your sock folds up under your foot while you're walking, no big deal but drives you f***ing crazy.
I hate that s**t, lol.
 

RonJ

Banned
Definitely check for real and pending CEL codes.

If the O2 sensor gets ruled out, then you would probably try the distributor swap next. If so, you may also want to try swapping your gf's ECU and possibly TPS into your car.
 

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
Scanned when I got home (No pending, would show Pending under Current)


Car ran like a dog going home. There was just no power under 3-3500 rpm, just hesitated and could feel little kicks like it was trying.

Distributor up next.
Then ECU
Then TPS ( I hate TPS "screws" )
 

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
So with the heat, the car has been feeling a little extra assy.

Today I beat the gf home so I pulled out the trusty multimeter to check the TPS sensor. All I had was safety pins and continuity test said they were good so I pushed them in and put my little clamps on and hooked up. Put the key to II and checked my reading. If everything I read is correct, normal TPS at rest should be 0.48V, mine read 0.51V. I guess it's not a crazy huge difference? I pushed the trottle open with my finger slowly and watched the voltage climb, it was steady, no spikes and it never dropped, peaked at 4.59V with the throttle pinned. Held it for a second, was steady. I also took a video of the multimeter while I pushed the throttle by the gas pedal, just to be sure, same readings.

Does that show the TPS is ok? I know there's a +0.03V on the CT and +0.09V on the WOT...

Gf got home, I already had my distributor out by that time so I said eff it and pulled hers out. Dropped it in mine with my rotor and cap and wires, checked timing to line it up really quick. I let it get to operating temp and revved it a bit in the driveway and then went for a spin. It drove like it does before it hits operating temp, very smooth. I did a few laps around the neighborhood, stopped in the middle of the street for some light take offs and I couldn't feel anything strange. Even light gas, granny take off was very smooth and then giving it like 3/4 throttle around 1200 rpms it picked right up. I took it on the highway and from a stop went WOT from 0 and was at 75 in no time, took off like a bat out of hell. Back through the neighborhood it was very smooth. Back home.

Swapped the distributors like NASCAR pit crews change tires, put the gf's back in her car in case she had to come get my dumbass (with her new O ring ;)), got mine back to my timing mark, double checked - looked good, closed up and gave it some revs in the driveway. Light take off from the driveway and it pretty much chugged, same at the stop sign at the end of my road. Half throttle through gears, trying to increase throttle towards 2000rpm, the car feels like it has 2 stage vtec, like it gets a shift of power around that 2500-3000rpm mark and then vtec at its normal rpm. It really felt unimpressive after stealing the gf's distributor. It didn't run as bad as it has been, but it's also a less humid, cooler day. I did a hard take off a couple times and it just didn't feel the same.

So that's my night so far. I did some reading and I'm sure it's irrelevant or incorrect or doesn't apply, but someone thought maybe the ignitor was overheating and it was causing it to work harder and basically made the car run like ass. I only bring this up since it seems to run noticeably worse on warmer, more humid days (I DO realize this is pretty common and by no means some sort of crazy breakthrough in automotive troubleshooting). Just curious if that could be a thing, since the car did run noticeably better with her distributor, in between the periods on me driving home from work, and then taking another test drive after the swap and putting mine back in.

Thoughts? Should I start looking for a replacement distributor, or is there more to look at?
 

RonJ

Banned
I pulled out the trusty multimeter to check the TPS sensor. All I had was safety pins and continuity test said they were good so I pushed them in and put my little clamps on and hooked up. Put the key to II and checked my reading. If everything I read is correct, normal TPS at rest should be 0.48V, mine read 0.51V. I guess it's not a crazy huge difference? I pushed the trottle open with my finger slowly and watched the voltage climb, it was steady, no spikes and it never dropped, peaked at 4.59V with the throttle pinned. Held it for a second, was steady. I also took a video of the multimeter while I pushed the throttle by the gas pedal, just to be sure, same readings.

Does that show the TPS is ok? I know there's a +0.03V on the CT and +0.09V on the WOT...
It's fine.

..pulled hers out. Dropped it in mine...drove like it does before it hits operating temp, very smooth.

Swapped the distributors...Light take off from the driveway and it pretty much chugged, same at the stop sign at the end of my road.

Thoughts?
Did you do the converse test of installing your distributor into the gf's car and reproduce the hesitation issue?
 

RonJ

Banned
Guess that would have been the smart thing to do... So there's your answer
If you do the converse test and get the expected result, then this would lock up your preliminary diagnosis of a faulty distributor. If so, do electrical tests to further pinpoint.
 

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
If you do the converse test and get the expected result, then this would lock up your preliminary diagnosis of a faulty distributor. If so, do electrical tests to further pinpoint.
Sounds good. I'll try to get them swapped out tomorrow when I have some more free time. Further electrical tests on the distributor? I guess find faulty module and replace?

My guess would be #7 and #10 would be a suspected culprit if there is an issue with the distributor itself. Obviously #10 can be had easily, but I'm not totally sure what to call #7 to research availability..
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=2000&catcgry3=2DR+EX&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR+(TEC+-+WESTEC)
 
Last edited:

RonJ

Banned
Not sure what your numbers refer to.

The distributor consists of more than an ICM. It also has three sensors, a coil, and wires.

 

Attachments

Wreckless Hype

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
Not sure what your numbers refer to.

The distributor is more than an ICM. It also has three sensors, a coil, and wires.
Fixed previous post. I'm dumb.

So the black boxes inside are sensors. When I had the distributor off, I noticed what looked like burned hot spots on the side of the ICM so I took the 2 screws out and just pulled it out of the housing. There was nothing that looked strange, it all looked very clean, the blades inside the housing all looked clean. But since I didn't know exactly what I was doing or what I was looking for, that's as far as I went.
 


Top