K20C2 swap

96-el-x

New Member
I don't think anyone is interested in doing this to an old ek sedan. But what happens if you get a low mileage K20C2 for cheap and you have time but not so much money? I'd like to jam 'er in there but I don't know what I'm up against. Naturally the old D16 needs to be removed, from there I'm lost.
 

Mr.Baker

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If you don't have the money, you won't be able to complete it....
 


96-el-x

New Member
If you don't have the money, you won't be able to complete it....
Time is money and so are parts. If I score parts from the auto mob's junkyards and maybe buy a few OEM items online as well as a few custom pieces and then take all the time I need. I'd say that means a bit of "the money" needs to spent. But it also means a lot more - something that money just can't buy. That's the craziness that's out there still in America. I know I'm not the only one who has the disease. I had planned to film the car crusher as it devoured my '96 LX but I was overcome with intense sadness - the very thought of such a horrible end to my beloved sedan was too much to bear. No, she badly needs a new engine and a return to freeway glory.
 

Mr.Baker

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That's the craziness that's out there still in America. I know I'm not the only one who has the disease. I had planned to film the car crusher as it devoured my '96 LX but I was overcome with intense sadness - the very thought of such a horrible end to my beloved sedan was too much to bear.
:whiner:


Back on topic, do you have the mechanical aptitude, tools and place to do this?
This won't be a direct swap as there is a ton of wiring differences as well as mounting it and the transmission.

I guess my question is, would this mount up the same as a K20z3/K20a3 into a 6th gen?
 


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pmac193

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I think even if the swap was free and in theory worked with k swap kits available on the market, it would still be more expensive than a budget b18/b20 swap .
 

Mr.Baker

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I think even if the swap was free and in theory worked with k swap kits available on the market, it would still be more expensive than a budget b18/b20 swap .
This was my thought.
You can still find the b series motors and will still be cheaper than messing with this newer K series..
 

96-el-x

New Member
Thanks, here are my (probably uniformed) thoughts on the B engines: The B's are considered obsolete by Honda. Which may not matter much but B's are also considered outdated by folks like me who drive 22 year old cars. A red valve cover B engine seems to mean people can automatically sell them for 1000s more because of their "aura". If the valve cover isn't red it still means Honda has stopped selling a lot of parts unique to the engine. I suspect the aftermarket has long dried up from the glory days of the B. All of the B's I see are used, abused, raced, imported, corroded - you name it - and typically over 20 years old. But they would slip into my EK sedan easier after a reman/rebuild.

My thoughts are that a newer mill out of wreck is a factory sealed engine - all nice and tight with power and fuel economy. A B18C on the auction site right now is going for $2000 more than the K20C2 I have a line on. Other B engines are cheaper still of course but none have just 25K miles like the newer motor. Rebuilding another D seems reasonable. I know a trusted machine shop. But the hassle and time and possibility of mistakes give me the heebie-jeebies.
 

96-el-x

New Member
:whiner:


Back on topic, do you have the mechanical aptitude, tools and place to do this?
This won't be a direct swap as there is a ton of wiring differences as well as mounting it and the transmission.

I guess my question is, would this mount up the same as a K20z3/K20a3 into a 6th gen?
Good question. I did the timing belt/water pump which took a whole Sunday probably because I did it twice. I also did the repair in an environment that is best described as hostile to auto repair, but no one really noticed. Traffic was light and the weather agreeable. I have Craftsman tools, 2 Harbor Freight impacts and various other items - fairly complete.

Yes this engine swap is a whole different weekend, and the wiring differences would be better if they were some kind of plug and play affair. I don't know what I'm dealing with here.
 

pmac193

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I'd start here, it's a budget K-swap 3 part series. They spent about $3,000 including the swap.

 

96-el-x

New Member
what happened to my post?
I saw this video. Looks like they got a good used engine. but I noticed that the engine mounts are .... really expensive! They appear to be more expensive than a used engine. I think my post was hidden because I said that Hasport mounts are expensive. Sorry about that - let's see if this post sticks.
 

Mr.Baker

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You're wasting your time and money on this K20C dream....
For the amount of time and money and labor you'll spend on this, the hassle doesn't seem worth it.

I would find a d16z6 or a y8, have that rebuilt and drop that into the car.
You don't need different mounts, you can use your existing wiring, transmission and axles, have the car up and running in no time.
 

96-el-x

New Member
You're wasting your time and money on this K20C dream....
For the amount of time and money and labor you'll spend on this, the hassle doesn't seem worth it.

I would find a d16z6 or a y8, have that rebuilt and drop that into the car.
You don't need different mounts, you can use your existing wiring, transmission and axles, have the car up and running in no time.


I see a guy put an R18 into his old ek hatch - took him about a year judging from the updates. Yes finding another D and having it rebuilt is probably sensible. It will be $2500 at a good machine shop near me. I couldn't do a reman myself so this is where their 5 star rating factors in.

Incidentally this sedan is an auto, but I have an s20 manual tranny , shift linkage, hydraulic bits, pedals, cv axles, console, ECU, etc from a 2000 LX packed onto a shelf in my dump apartment. So I'd want to go ahead and swap the manual tranny after I (or someone else) rebuilds it. I might be able to do that myself.

If I went the K20C2 route I could drive all this stuff to the recycler and impress friends, family and emissions testing with my new sleeper. I'd have all the bits from the wreck of the "modern Civic" including the engine. Then it would be the usual drive by wire battle and doin' a little math and perhaps fab for mounts and half shafts. Victory! Someone has already done this with the super duper red adorned K20C1. But that ain't no workin' man's kit to get groceries, medication and pick up the kids.

All of this might be crazy talk, wild hallucinations and like you said a waste of time and money. Dilapidated cars and wacky ideas, the stress level is huge because taking the bus and riding a bike ain't gonna cut it man.

It must be Monday but I'm starting to think this whole thing could get overwhelming without a couple of good mechanics at my side. I can throw money and beer at them to help out when the going gets rough.
 

Mr.Baker

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Dilapidated cars and wacky ideas, the stress level is huge because taking the bus and riding a bike ain't gonna cut it man.
Which is why I said find another 92-00 D series vtec, rebuild and swap that in. You already have all the parts that you can interchange.
If you are not mechanically inclined and can't have the car be down for a long time, I would rebuild a D series or at least find a decent one to just drop in.

For the cost of parts, time and labor, unless you're doing a legit K series swap, such as one from a Type S/Si or even larger displacement K, I don't see the benefit.
 

96-el-x

New Member
The L15B1 engine is in the 2017 Honda fit. This engine is the evolution of the D and is an even more compact inline-four engine. It's got better mileage, better emissions and puts out great power in a lighter, smaller package. I could bench press one of these motors. You know where I'm goin' with this. We've discussed the D and it seems like the "normal common sense" way to deal with my transportation issue

But how about putting one of these aircraft approved L motors into my poverty case 1996 LX? Plenty o' room under the hood to play compared to the Fit where Honda sort of rolls the whole thing into a smaller space. I've never worked on a Fit so I have no idea what it's like but it looks jammed in there but you'd never have to do the D timing belt spiel on a L motor. Gotta be easier than the K20C2.
 

pmac193

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What is this a diary? :lol:

At least upload a picture of the car if this is going to be a build thread.
 

Mr.Baker

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The L15B1 engine is in the 2017 Honda fit.
Gotta be easier than the K20C2.
How do you figure?
You'll have to re-engineer everything to work and fit, transmission, axles, shift linkage, motor mounts, then lets not forget about the wiring headache.

This is flat out stupid, work smarter, not harder.

Find another D series 92-00 vtec motor, spend the money to have it rebuit, literally drop it into your shitbox and be done.
Less headache and less money wasted than these other boneheaded swaps....
 

96-el-x

New Member
What is this a diary? :lol:

At least upload a picture of the car if this is going to be a build thread.

I should get some pics up but I want the first pics to be more artistic with less focus on ho-hum mechanicals. I'll go into the engine bay after some decisions have been made and when there's something worth looking at. For now I want real life pictures of normal wear and tear on my trusty sedan - thought provoking, artistic scenery.

There's an industrial side of my town: concrete, metal and auto recycling, foundry, municipal waste processing/recycling, rail cars and heavy trucks. There's a huge Cat track machine used at one of the car crushing sites that sits idle on the weekends next to a mountain of dead vehicles. I figure I could position my mottled civic in front of the whole set up for the perfect shot.
 

96-el-x

New Member
No pics yet sorry. I keep looking at the L engine and wonder why no one has rammed it into an 6th gen. Think about it. You have a lighter shell, hopefully rust free. You have double wishbone suspension and maybe some chassis upgrades over the years. (Ohlins happens to be my favorite) With a new L engine you might end up with a better car than a new Honda fit or even Civic for that matter.

I'm not typically conspiratorial but I suspect this is why no company has come out with "swap kits" and "mounts". Those are made for the go-fast type adolescents who like lowering kits and roaring intakes, exhausts and a massive wing on the trunk to go with their forged, forced induction, heavier, gas demanding drag strip motors mostly to attract women (or men). When the average Joe starts putting a lighter, improved engine into an older superior chassis that might just bring the wrath of Honda who probably spend R&D to make sure it won't be too easy to do so.

Anyway, the K20C2 appears to be not-as-tall as the L15. I am guessing the K20C2 is heavier than the L15. The K20C2 is lighter than the R18 it replaced but I don't know how they compare to the original engine. I do know the earlier K's - all of 'em - were heavier than the humble D16, all the B's too.
 

Mr.Baker

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I do know the earlier K's - all of 'em - were heavier than the humble D16, all the B's too.
What is an "earlier" K?
The 2L K series was heavier than the D by about 100lbs, but only outweighed the B by 10 lbs.
The 2.4 outweighs the 2L by 10lbs or so.
 

96-el-x

New Member
What is an "earlier" K?
The 2L K series was heavier than the D by about 100lbs, but only outweighed the B by 10 lbs.
The 2.4 outweighs the 2L by 10lbs or so.

Thank you professor Baker. I was referring to the fairly signifigant changes with the K20C2 from the "earlier" Ks. (2002-2015) The K20C2 is port injected as typical but with more similarities to the R18. The drool generating red adorned K20C1 has direct injection and the head is a complete new piece of work - frustrating the engine mod dudes who usually get off on reaming orifices for more flow since making a worse engine than the one that left the factory is a top priority with that cult. Oh yeah - also to make more noise and go faster.

I've also read that Honda changed their method of casting the blocks some time in the 2000s I don't know whether this affected weight as it obviously did cost. Thanks for the info.
 



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