Looking at brake upgrades? Look no further than here.
- Thread starter Evan.
- Start date
To the brake expert
I just bought a complete rear disc conversion minus the e-brake cables
My mechanic told me that the Proportion Valve that I have is not really needed, but as I read the thread, it said a proportion should be used if the conversion came with one.
I plan on using my car on road courses, auto-x events, and as a daily driver.
My question is, Must I install the proportion valve if I'm going to be using the brake system in such events or should I not do it all?
Also, i know I need Si e-brake lines, but are there other brake lines needed as well?
Thanks in advance
I just bought a complete rear disc conversion minus the e-brake cables
My mechanic told me that the Proportion Valve that I have is not really needed, but as I read the thread, it said a proportion should be used if the conversion came with one.
I plan on using my car on road courses, auto-x events, and as a daily driver.
My question is, Must I install the proportion valve if I'm going to be using the brake system in such events or should I not do it all?
Also, i know I need Si e-brake lines, but are there other brake lines needed as well?
Thanks in advance
No. The way the "proportioning valve" works (the name is a tad misleading) is that for the drum one, it sends fluid only to the back first. this is sent until it 'feels resistance' which is the drum contacting and start braking, and then sends fluid to the front in the correct difference of pressure. with rear discs, it feels that resitance right away and so acts just the same.
94-01 Integra e-brake cables can work however they are a bit longer, so you simply adjust the adjusting bolt more to the front (the deep socket 11mm one). Works just the same and everything, only difference is that the C-clamp that holds the cables to the body in the cabin will only have one bolt to hold it since the cable is like a inch longer, but it doesn't slide around anyway, so you're good. ive ran these cables for 2 years on 5 different rear disc setups including the 9.4" teg/civic discs.
Thank you for the great information and even more so for the warning about drillied rotors. Frankly they are a POS. On a 99 Ej8 i had a number of years ago, while dealing with PA killer roads up in the poconos the drilled rotors on the front fried (read: burnt black), the left rotor split and the rear rotors burned dark blue and ended up boiling the brake fluid.
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=173953
Check here, the stuff here I reposted under my own name this time (opposed to a friend posting it) and has all the answers. Replacement discs for the EK4 are the same as those of a 99 Si.
Check here, the stuff here I reposted under my own name this time (opposed to a friend posting it) and has all the answers. Replacement discs for the EK4 are the same as those of a 99 Si.
poonamt93
New Member
My 2005 never had a brake noise problem until changing the rear brakes at 95,000 miles. A family member (auto mechanic) changed them, with the Ford brake kit and non-Motorcraft pads. Now they squeal horribly. The Ford dealer says that you can replace the brakes and drums according to the latest TSB, but it may not solve the problem completely, that they will always makes noise to some degree. They quoted me $500 for new rear brakes according to TSB 07-14-4.
I don't need new brakes.... but the noise is unacceptable! The squealing is all the time and is soooo loud.
Question is, has anyone had their brakes replaced according to TSB 07-14-4? Has it helped/stoped the problem? I don't know if it is worth paying $500 for new brakes when a) I don't need them and b) if it is not a guarantee to stop the problem.
Any thoughts?
I don't need new brakes.... but the noise is unacceptable! The squealing is all the time and is soooo loud.
Question is, has anyone had their brakes replaced according to TSB 07-14-4? Has it helped/stoped the problem? I don't know if it is worth paying $500 for new brakes when a) I don't need them and b) if it is not a guarantee to stop the problem.
Any thoughts?
hatchbuild10
New Member
So everyone is talking about knuckles and what parts are needed. I am curious to know what about the brake lines? I mean what do you do just hook up everything and then you are left there with no lines. Do you just use you exsisting ones or?
Major_121
New Member
Honda EM2 ITR calipers 2001-2005
Honda EM2 ITR calipers
Honda civic 2001-2005 (01-05)
2002 Honda Civic DX Coupe
D17A1
Master cylinder 13/16”
10.3” brake rotors
50mm piston brake calipers
Stock rear brakes.
I rencently upgraded front brakes to
ITR calipers (57mm piston) and 23T brackets (1997 Acura Integra Type-R)
11.1 Inch blank brembo rotors (1996 Prelude VTEC)
2002 Acura RSX-S master cylinder and brake booster (15/16” master cylinder)
Nissin Premium brake pads.
Caliper Procedures:
Mill approximately 3mm off the mounting interface of the bracket. Otherwise, everything else is bolt on. Caliper mounting bolts are a match from the OE, to the ITR caliper brackets.
Brake Rotors:
Drill the prelude rotors to the bolt pattern of 4x100.
Brake Master Cylinder and booster:
Direct bolt-on, and zero modifications required. From the brake lines, sensor, mounting holes, EVERYTHING, IS DIRECT BOLT-ON. The brake booster is actually smaller in diameter, but deeper in depth than the OEM. It was actually easier to squeeze in.
The RSX-S brake booster utilizes a dual type booster rather than a single diaphragm brake booster, mated to a 15/16” master cylinder. This means, the booster is longer in depth, but smaller in diameter.
It is possible that you can find a direct bolt on 1” master cylinder/booster combo from a CRV LX 2005+. But you would have to ensure yourself that you can physically fit it in the new booster as the CRV uses one of larger diameter. If you choose another master cylinder/booster, you may have “brake fluid reservoir” clearance issues, and brake line modifications to make.
Overall impressions:
The entire car is STOCK.
However, the front brake upgrade was a huge improvement over the OE front brakes.
Braking performance:
Definitely, a big improvement in braking distance over the stock front brakes. However, contrarily to what I have heard, the car does not “dive” dramatically. Everything feels fairly balanced. Although I still have drum brakes in the rear.
Brake pedal feel:
With the master cylinder upgrade / brake booster, the feel is VERY GOOD. Just a little pedal travel before the car slows down. Perhaps with a 1” master cylinder, the pedal feel would probably feel similar to that of a fairly recent Mercedes or BMW or luxury car.
Conclusion:
Great braking performance, balance, and feel. Unless you take your car to the track, I do not see the point of upgrading the rear brakes to discs.
Honda EM2 ITR calipers
Honda civic 2001-2005 (01-05)
2002 Honda Civic DX Coupe
D17A1
Master cylinder 13/16”
10.3” brake rotors
50mm piston brake calipers
Stock rear brakes.
I rencently upgraded front brakes to
ITR calipers (57mm piston) and 23T brackets (1997 Acura Integra Type-R)
11.1 Inch blank brembo rotors (1996 Prelude VTEC)
2002 Acura RSX-S master cylinder and brake booster (15/16” master cylinder)
Nissin Premium brake pads.
Caliper Procedures:
Mill approximately 3mm off the mounting interface of the bracket. Otherwise, everything else is bolt on. Caliper mounting bolts are a match from the OE, to the ITR caliper brackets.
Brake Rotors:
Drill the prelude rotors to the bolt pattern of 4x100.
Brake Master Cylinder and booster:
Direct bolt-on, and zero modifications required. From the brake lines, sensor, mounting holes, EVERYTHING, IS DIRECT BOLT-ON. The brake booster is actually smaller in diameter, but deeper in depth than the OEM. It was actually easier to squeeze in.
The RSX-S brake booster utilizes a dual type booster rather than a single diaphragm brake booster, mated to a 15/16” master cylinder. This means, the booster is longer in depth, but smaller in diameter.
It is possible that you can find a direct bolt on 1” master cylinder/booster combo from a CRV LX 2005+. But you would have to ensure yourself that you can physically fit it in the new booster as the CRV uses one of larger diameter. If you choose another master cylinder/booster, you may have “brake fluid reservoir” clearance issues, and brake line modifications to make.
Overall impressions:
The entire car is STOCK.
However, the front brake upgrade was a huge improvement over the OE front brakes.
Braking performance:
Definitely, a big improvement in braking distance over the stock front brakes. However, contrarily to what I have heard, the car does not “dive” dramatically. Everything feels fairly balanced. Although I still have drum brakes in the rear.
Brake pedal feel:
With the master cylinder upgrade / brake booster, the feel is VERY GOOD. Just a little pedal travel before the car slows down. Perhaps with a 1” master cylinder, the pedal feel would probably feel similar to that of a fairly recent Mercedes or BMW or luxury car.
Conclusion:
Great braking performance, balance, and feel. Unless you take your car to the track, I do not see the point of upgrading the rear brakes to discs.
Major_121
New Member
Average Joe brake upgrade tech
Garage quality brake science.
Governing factors for brake upgrades
- Type of use (obviously)
- Wheel size.
Generally, what will govern the size of your brake kit is…
Wheel diameter – limit rotor diameter
Wheels offset – limit caliper type
Front Rotors
Always go for the biggest possible rotors.
Thickness – Ability to absorb heat.
Diameter – Typically, a taller rotor will allow you to exert more braking force. (Take a breaker bar tightening a bolt. The same force applied to the longest breaker was will yield the largest torque).
Rotor quality (premium rotors) – Typically, a higher quality rotor will last longer, differences in steel, metallurgy, and built process. Less prone to uneven wear, warping, etc. I would simply ensure that the rotors come from a reputable source / manufacturer. (brembo, powerslot, etc)
Brake pads – Pick the pad that suits your use, and be honest.
Front Calipers
Brake pad size (brake pad area) – Brake pad size can typically allow for more braking with less effort before lockup occurs (kinetic friction).
Piston size – The piston size does not really dictate stopping power. However, more piston area typically means you can utilize a bigger brake pad.
Number of pistons – More pistons does a lot of things. The direct benefit, usually means bigger brake pad.
Floating caliper – Less feel, and less control than a non-floating caliper, benefit is low cost.
Fixed caliper – Such as brembo, wildwood, etc. Allows more use of 4 piston calipers +. Better for brake feel, modulation, and control. Design and construction most often allow for larger area brake pads. Penalty is higher cost.
Rear brakes
This is purely an opinion. Unless you drastically upgrade the front brakes, or take your car to the track, I believe you do not typically need to upgrade the rear brakes.
However, if you insist…
Rotors – Typically, a taller rotor will allow you to exert more braking force. (Take a breaker bar tightening a bolt. The same force applied to the longest breaker was will yield the largest torque). I would most likely find a kit that has the largest diameter disc. In retrospect, a taller disc will most likely yield the highest braking force. Thus, you want to maximize rear brake power, to ensure that it is not a weak point.
Proportioning valve – If you max out your rear brakes, your rear brakes will lockup before the front. Which you do not want. So set a proportioning valve on the master cylinder controlling the rear brakes. The desired end result is, front lockup, rear just barely locking up.
Caliper – At your discretion.
Master cylinder size
Size of the master cylinder typically governs over booster size. Since you usually buy the two as a pair, you shouldn’t bother thinking of brake booster.
Master cylinder size affects the amount of brake pedal travel required to have the calipers clamp. Size of the master cylinder should be matched with the front, the rear usually irrelevant.
I would only upgrade if you have anything smaller than a 7/8 size master cylinder. Sizes 15/16” to 1” are usually ideal.
15/16” – Pedal feels like an average cars brakes
1” – Pedal feels like a recent BMW or Mercedes style brakes. Touch the pedal, and slow down (effortless).
Garage quality brake science.
Governing factors for brake upgrades
- Type of use (obviously)
- Wheel size.
Generally, what will govern the size of your brake kit is…
Wheel diameter – limit rotor diameter
Wheels offset – limit caliper type
Front Rotors
Always go for the biggest possible rotors.
Thickness – Ability to absorb heat.
Diameter – Typically, a taller rotor will allow you to exert more braking force. (Take a breaker bar tightening a bolt. The same force applied to the longest breaker was will yield the largest torque).
Rotor quality (premium rotors) – Typically, a higher quality rotor will last longer, differences in steel, metallurgy, and built process. Less prone to uneven wear, warping, etc. I would simply ensure that the rotors come from a reputable source / manufacturer. (brembo, powerslot, etc)
Brake pads – Pick the pad that suits your use, and be honest.
Front Calipers
Brake pad size (brake pad area) – Brake pad size can typically allow for more braking with less effort before lockup occurs (kinetic friction).
Piston size – The piston size does not really dictate stopping power. However, more piston area typically means you can utilize a bigger brake pad.
Number of pistons – More pistons does a lot of things. The direct benefit, usually means bigger brake pad.
Floating caliper – Less feel, and less control than a non-floating caliper, benefit is low cost.
Fixed caliper – Such as brembo, wildwood, etc. Allows more use of 4 piston calipers +. Better for brake feel, modulation, and control. Design and construction most often allow for larger area brake pads. Penalty is higher cost.
Rear brakes
This is purely an opinion. Unless you drastically upgrade the front brakes, or take your car to the track, I believe you do not typically need to upgrade the rear brakes.
However, if you insist…
Rotors – Typically, a taller rotor will allow you to exert more braking force. (Take a breaker bar tightening a bolt. The same force applied to the longest breaker was will yield the largest torque). I would most likely find a kit that has the largest diameter disc. In retrospect, a taller disc will most likely yield the highest braking force. Thus, you want to maximize rear brake power, to ensure that it is not a weak point.
Proportioning valve – If you max out your rear brakes, your rear brakes will lockup before the front. Which you do not want. So set a proportioning valve on the master cylinder controlling the rear brakes. The desired end result is, front lockup, rear just barely locking up.
Caliper – At your discretion.
Master cylinder size
Size of the master cylinder typically governs over booster size. Since you usually buy the two as a pair, you shouldn’t bother thinking of brake booster.
Master cylinder size affects the amount of brake pedal travel required to have the calipers clamp. Size of the master cylinder should be matched with the front, the rear usually irrelevant.
I would only upgrade if you have anything smaller than a 7/8 size master cylinder. Sizes 15/16” to 1” are usually ideal.
15/16” – Pedal feels like an average cars brakes
1” – Pedal feels like a recent BMW or Mercedes style brakes. Touch the pedal, and slow down (effortless).
all the info on this post is so awesome and probably you can help me with my brakes upgrade, civic hb 90, mc 1" abs booster both from integra 98-01, 40/40 valvo prop, 17cl15vn calips with 11.1" rotors, civic Si 99-00 rear discs, i have bleed them in many ways and always the pedal feels like some spongy, the pedal reacts almos on the last 50% of the pedal response, then i adjust a little bit the pedal but in some times stop a little bit too the car, the only part that i have not change are the pads, are OEM and im so tired because i want a good pedal response almost just pushing the pedal the cars stop ha ha
reading the post, do i need to change the mc to 15/16""????????
thns for some info or tip
lutherking92
New Member
I didn't find the answer for this, so I ask it. One of my mate here in Hungary has a 5th gen civic sedan with d16z6, BUT it's from the USA. It has bigger brakes, brake pistons and calipers (also pads of course) than the normal civics all around. According to an EPC, it needs ITR pads. Is it possible, that it has the same caliper as a dc2? Or the dc (and the ek9, since it has the same brake set up) has a brake set up only used in type r? Or preludes/accords uses it maybe? (those with 282 oem brakes) Anyone with an idea?
The civic ex came with larger brakes from the factory, measure the rotor, or take some pics and post them here, it could have the integra brake upgrade, hard to say without more info.
If you post pics, put a ruler in them to show size.
If you post pics, put a ruler in them to show size.
lutherking92
New Member
The rotor is 260 or 262 that's for sure, since the guy now uses the rotors from an ek4 (which is definitely 262mm)
Player1_Loony
New Member
Can I do the conversion on my ej6?
Major_121
New Member
You've probably still got air in your brake system....
Lookup on youtube, how to bench bleed a master cylinder. In addition, i use ''speed bleeders'' on the brake calipers.
Major_121
New Member
A lot of honda brake pads are interchangeable from one model to another. No coincidence, Honda/Acura made it that way.
What i did, is I cross referenced part numbers from Hawk Pads. Same brake pad part numbers come up while make and model of the vehicle sometime change.
Answer: Yes, it is possible to use an ITR caliper on a 10.3inch rotor. Most likely, the ITR or RSX caliper, in any case, I believe they use the same brake pad part number