Sputtering issue: 90 Civic DX

[Gerorge Karras]

...I know very little about my 1990 Honda Civic DX 1.5l and I'm at wits end as to what step I should take next.
So this is a great score, as new and only 50,000. I did the following work on it.
Changed eng. oil and filter, coolant exchange, transmission oil exchange, new plugs (Iridium 0.040" gap), new plug wires, air filter.
Needed an alignment, so the repair shop also looked into the sputtering problem and found that the fuel tank and filter were dirty which were replaced and they threw in a can of some kind of injector cleaner.
They also found on the electric side that the rotor and cap were badly burned (Doesn't sound right to me for having only 50,000km.)
The fuel issue seems the problem to me because the car had some old gas in it and perhaps I should have put conditioner or just buy new stuff.
Also, this started about a week after I bought the car when after reading the manual is says to use Octane 91 and up so, when I fueled up maybe the super gas doesn't sell often and they may have had dirty fuel (although it is a new gas station).
The sputtering occurs when I accelerate at any speed, some times even at idle and other times at top speed. But it is intermittent. You go for a while thinking oh, great that cleaner stuff is finally working as you had perfect performance and then, the sputter starts to happen more frequently again. All throttle and load positions tried, but there seems to be no predictable time when the miss happens. F'n infuriating!
Lastly, I'm not sure if some component is getting damaged as long as this is going on.

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[A]]Th!ngSound]

Changed eng. oil and filter, coolant exchange, transmission oil exchange, new plugs (Iridium 0.040" gap), new plug wires, air filter.
Needed an alignment, so the repair shop also looked into the sputtering problem and found that the fuel tank and filter were dirty which were replaced and they threw in a can of some kind of injector cleaner.
They also found on the electric side that the rotor and cap were badly burned (Doesn't sound right to me for having only 50,000km.)
The fuel issue seems the problem to me because the car had some old gas in it and perhaps I should have put conditioner or just buy new stuff.

Once again, I would recommend not using spark plugs like iridiums or platinums. Copper plugs perform much better with the Honda D and B series engines like yours. NGK V-Power coppers are perfect.
On the fuel side, it's very possible that using a cleaner after changing the filter and fuel tank could still result in breaking loose any carbon or other foreign material in the system. From my personal experience, it's best to change the fuel filter AFTER using fuel system cleaners on a known-to-be-filthy fuel system. Keep an eye on the cap and rotor. Check for excessive wear after a thousand miles or so and troubleshoot that if it persists.

 

[HeX]

I moved your comment out of that other thread (listed below) into its own as it should be being that your asking about added issues and not that members issue.

http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/car-sputtering-possible-bad-gas.230323/

To begin with, Im pretty certain that no non-SI Civic requires anything higher than regular 87 octane so Id like to see that in writing via posting a picture. Read this thread to understand why the wrong octane could be part of your issue if not the sole culprit.

http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/octane-usage-guide.229498/

Improper burning octane coupled with a fuel cleaner could just make it worse as your engines operating temp cant properly burn what its being fed. What fuel cleaner and brand of fuel is in it? What brand of pkugs did you use? You should only use NGK or Denso. All this makes a difference. I suggest you drain or pump out the current fuel & add a top tier 87 octane.

Please also explain why you believe the fuel is dirty and why the mechanics didnt dump it. I agree with "A]]Th!ngSound"s suggestions.

 

[XpL0d3r]

I moved your comment out of that other thread (listed below) into its own as it should be being that your asking about added issues and not that members issue.

http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/car-sputtering-possible-bad-gas.230323/

To begin with, Im pretty certain that no non-SI Civic requires anything higher than regular 87 octane so Id like to see that in writing via posting a picture. Read this thread to understand why the wrong octane could be part of your issue if not the sole culprit. Improper burning octane coupled with a fuel cleaner could just make it worse as your engines operating temp cant properly burn what its being fed. What fuel cleaner and brand of fuel is in it? What brand of pkugs did you use? You should only use NGK or Denso. All this makes a difference. I suggest you drain or pump out the current fuel & add a top tier 87 octane.

Please also explain why you believe the fuel is dirty and why the mechanics didnt dump it. I agree with "A]]Th!ngSound"s suggestions.

Yeah, the manual located here says Octane 86 and up.

@Gerorge Karras - Is the check engine light (CEL) on? Does the CEL work?

 

[Gerorge Karras]

I've attached a picture of the 1990 Civic Manual. Page 49 says that Research Octane number (RON) 91 to be used. However, doing some reading, I was quite blown away at the different types of Octane numbers out there and the complex engineering science involved. The only hope a guy like me has, is either trial and error, or a dedicated Honda expert source.
Research Octane Number (RON)
Motor Octane Number (MON
Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2
Difference between RON, MON, and AKI
Observed Road Octane Number (RdON)
Octane Index
No, the engine light is not on. (I will soon also know what the CEL is
I have stopped using higher octane and injection cleaners as the filter last time was clean and I don't think any more will do the engine any good.
I have installed regular NGK resistance plugs as advised and am using regular (87) that has 10% ethanol.
The good news, the car is now running a lot smoother on a short in city drive only sputtered once or twice when stopped at a light. Perhaps all I had to do is be patient. However, I am going for a bit of a trip,tomorrow and will let you all know.
G
PS the previous owner used to switch cars between hers and her husband's every 6 months or so. Probably gas residue build up over 6 month stretches.

 

[A]]Th!ngSound]

I've attached a picture of the 1990 Civic Manual. Page 49 says that Research Octane number (RON) 91 to be used. However, doing some reading, I was quite blown away at the different types of Octane numbers out there and the complex engineering science involved. The only hope a guy like me has, is either trial and error, or a dedicated Honda expert source.
Research Octane Number (RON)
Motor Octane Number (MON
Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2
Difference between RON, MON, and AKI
Observed Road Octane Number (RdON)
Octane Index
No, the engine light is not on. (I will soon also know what the CEL is
I have stopped using higher octane and injection cleaners as the filter last time was clean and I don't think any more will do the engine any good.
I have installed regular NGK resistance plugs as advised and am using regular (87) that has 10% ethanol.
The good news, the car is now running a lot smoother on a short in city drive only sputtered once or twice when stopped at a light. Perhaps all I had to do is be patient. However, I am going for a bit of a trip,tomorrow and will let you all know.
G
PS the previous owner used to switch cars between hers and her husband's every 6 months or so. Probably gas residue build up over 6 month stretches.

It's possible that you might need to get the injectors cleaned and inspected... but I would look at your distributor cap, rotor and ignition coil, too. Sputtering at higher rpm's usually points to those things if the injectors are keeping up. It may also help to ensure your ground connections (from battery and the engine) are not corroded and make strong clean connections to the frame.
As far as octane ratings go, just know that most everyone here with several years experience of owning and maintaining older Hondas will tell you that 87-89 pump gas is perfectly fine to use.

 

[HeX]

@Gerorge Karras, I added a link tomelast post that I referenced but forgot to include.