anti-theft device / no startup

[calpolyarc]

2001 Civic. When I bought the car I had an anti-theft device installed. It's a coded chip card that I have to insert into a card holder before I can start the car. It's been acting up lately (14 years old!) so I thought I'd tamper with it... bad idea. First thing I noticed is that the way it was installed was by simply cutting the blackw/ white stripe wire in the steering column and connecting the controller to the two ends of that wire, thus interrupting it. See diagram:

So I thought hey, if I just reconnect the black w/ white stripe wire together and remove the controller I should be good to go. So I did and the car actually started! Twice! But that was yesterday, this morning it wouldn't start. It tries to turn over but doesn't. I re-installed the anti-theft controller and get the same result, tries to turn over but doesn't start.

While researching I came across this Honda Service Bulletin: http://www.hondalac.com/service/Bulletins/x01-053e.pdf which says that this is the correct behavior for an 01 Civic if you try to start the engine with a non-programmed ignition key. Page 2: "If you try to start the engine with a nonprogrammed ignition key, the engine cranks, but it cannot start."
My key is programmed, so I'm wondering if by tampering with the anti-theft device if I somehow screwed with the programming in the ECM/PCM/ECU ??

The anti-theft device I tampered with appears to be after market, so I'm not sure how it relates to the ECM.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Thanks.

 

[lethal6]

I friggin hate those stupid card readers. I don't know how many I have had to remove over the years. They always seem to end up causing problems. Good move ditching that stupid poorly designed invention.

I would check your fuses. Especially the large ones that handle the ignition. How did you splice the wires back together? It is highly possible that you blew a fuse in the process of eliminating that card reader.

 

[calpolyarc]

Hey Lethal6, what was the procedure for removing these devices? Was it as easy as just ripping them out and reconnecting the wire that the device was interrupting? Because that's what I did and it obviously didn't work... I think the immobilizer system in the ECM/PCM is what is causing me problems... but I don't know what I could have done to make it mad.

I checked ALL of the fuses and they're all in tact... do you have any other ideas??

Thanks!

 

[lethal6]

Hey Lethal6, what was the procedure for removing these devices? Was it as easy as just ripping them out and reconnecting the wire that the device was interrupting? Because that's what I did and it obviously didn't work... I think the immobilizer system in the ECM/PCM is what is causing me problems... but I don't know what I could have done to make it mad.

I checked ALL of the fuses and they're all in tact... do you have any other ideas??

Thanks!

The way I did it was to remove the unit completely and repatch the stock wires. Worst case scenario, I had one I had to source a dash harness because it was so hacked. It has been almost 12 years since I have come across one though (I used to be a PDI and used car tech and dealt with tons of these on use trade ins), but I don't remember it being that difficult. They caused nightmares but nothing hard to remove from what I remember.

It is possible that a wire was loose and you fried the ECU or immobilizer control unit. It is also possible that you somehow flashed the immobilizer and it isn't recognizing the key anymore. Just pulling at straws though. I don't have the car here to diag and it is very hard over the net. There are a lot of factors that could be overlooked. I will tell you this though, it usually is the most simplest of things.

One check would be if the immobilizer light on the dash comes on and then goes back out when the key is read. If it doesn't go out, there is your problem. If it does, it's likely that the immobilizer is still reading the key fine. If it wasn't the light would be on constantly (or flashing constantly).

Looking at the fuses and actually checking them for current is a totally different thing. Fuses are notorious for being blown but not looking like it. I would check for current at both ends of all of them that have to do with fuel and ignition.

 

[calpolyarc]

The way I did it was to remove the unit completely and repatch the stock wires.

That's what I did

I agree it is usually the simplest thing... I am trying to narrow that down. The car's behavior of turning over but just not running when I try to start it leads me to the immobilizer stopping the car from running.

I'm going to go home and poke around the immobilizer to see if I can see any damaged wires. I will re-check the important fuses too for current.

 

[calpolyarc]

I visually inspected the immobi unit and it looks fine. No damaged wires.

Only other update I have for now is that when I put the key in and turn it to Accessory - II... the green key light comes on for a few seconds and then goes away... telling me that it DOES recognize the key. Then when I turn it to Ignition - III... the car cranks but does not start (sounds soooo close) and the green key light starts flashes and does NOT stop flashing until I take the key out of the ignition.

My manual says that if the car didn't recognize the key that light would flash in the Accessory - II position.

I'm waiting to hear back from Honda with the Immobilizer Brake Code to see if I can start the car that way. Otherwise I don't know what else to do.

 

[lethal6]

How did you repair the ignition wire (black/white)? This wire needs a strong connection.

Is your pump priming? Are you getting fuel to the injectors? Are all of the plugs and wires firing? What is the voltage of the battery both at rest and while cranking? There are so many factors to this.

 

[calpolyarc]

How did you repair the ignition wire (black/white)? This wire needs a strong connection.

Currently the anti-theft device is re-installed. Any wires that I cut I have tied back together with a wire nut.

Is your pump priming? Are you getting fuel to the injectors? Are all of the plugs and wires firing? What is the voltage of the battery both at rest and while cranking? There are so many factors to this.

This stuff is unfortunately over my head. I'm not a mechanic so I don't know how to test this stuff.

I got the immobilizer brake code from Honda and tried it and the car still wouldn't start. I'm pretty sure I did it correctly too because the green key light stayed on solid while I was doing the code and then after the 5th digit it blinked 3 times just like I've read it's supposed to. crank crank crank but no start. Sounds so close still... in fact I think it did actually start for a second and then shut off.

And I did this with the jumper cables attached to a running car to make sure it would have juice.

It may be time to get it towed to the shop

 

[my93civic]

That may be a good idea cause if you don't know what you're doing you could go more harm than good

 

[lethal6]

Currently the anti-theft device is re-installed. Any wires that I cut I have tied back together with a wire nut.


This stuff is unfortunately over my head. I'm not a mechanic so I don't know how to test this stuff.

I got the immobilizer brake code from Honda and tried it and the car still wouldn't start. I'm pretty sure I did it correctly too because the green key light stayed on solid while I was doing the code and then after the 5th digit it blinked 3 times just like I've read it's supposed to. crank crank crank but no start. Sounds so close still... in fact I think it did actually start for a second and then shut off.

And I did this with the jumper cables attached to a running car to make sure it would have juice.

It may be time to get it towed to the shop

If the unit isn't working correctly, with it hooked up the car will NOT start. You need to remove the card reader. I would recommend removing the wire nut and actually splice the wires together correctly.

I highly suggest giving the car to a mechanic if you can't test the stuff I asked about. That is basic stuff and you aren't likely to find out how to get your car started without them. You need 3 things for a vehicle to run. Fuel, spark, and air. You need to be able to troubleshoot each one to find out which you aren't getting. If you are going to insist on working on your own car you need to learn how to do basic troubleshooting.

I am tapping out. Sorry my friend but the stuff I listed is very basic and is the main things needed to diag a car that isn't starting without this troubleshooting we are spinning our wheels so to speak. Learn up and then report back. That or drop it in a mechanic's lap. Do you have friends that work on cars? We all had to start somewhere. I learned the basics from my grandfather and then built skills through hands on experience with friend's cars and my own through out the years until I landed in a shop atmosphere. No better learning than hands on.