car over heated suspected blown headgasket (negatice)

[sbmarco]

car over heated suspected blown headgasket (negative)

Whats up everyone. i really need your help here.

about a week ago as i was driving home my civic (d16z) overheated, as i pulled over and came to a stop, the car died. While dead white smoke came gushing out of radiator cap opening and exhaust. After that the car would crank but wouldn't start, so i did a compression test and all cylinders read about 30 psi(dry). so i went a head and took my head off to find that the head gasket was not blown( still in tact)

so my question is, what do you guys think may be the problem?

another question: my cam is set to tdc, are all valves supposed to be closed? or are there a few that are open?

i was told valves may be stuck,

have any of you experienced anything similar to me.

i really need help guys. Thanks to all those who took the time to read and help me out.

 

[SpeedTechnik]

I have never experienced anything like that, can you give us more symptoms or details so that we can better assist you with advice on your diagnosis? Also, here is a handy video on compression testing, what it does, why you do it, and what you can learn from it (or the results):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_tbksFYhl4

 

[sbmarco]

i was driving down freeway and car overheated, so i pulled over immediately. as i came to a stop car died. pulled of radiator cap and white smoke came bursting out of the opening. also the overflow canister was hissing and also was gushing out white smoke, a few minutes later ii noticed white smoke exiting exhaust pipe. i let the car cool down as long as i could( being i was a hour from home) tried to turn her on but nothing. I was able to flag some one down to help me jump the start, but nothing. so i towed the car home. i had zero coolant the next morning so i filled her up and tried turning her over again the and nothing. (cranks but no start ) i checked overflow canister and was white ( kinda like milk). the next day i did a compression test and read 30 psi across all four cylinders.( cylinder number 4 had white smoke exiting from spark plug hole as i was testing)motor only has 110 thousand original miles. As i removed the timing belt i noticed cracks on it. but i checked the cam gear, crank and timing cover marks, and all line up.

i tried to be as discriptive as possible. Thanks

 

[SpeedTechnik]

i was driving down freeway and car overheated, so i pulled over immediately. as i came to a stop car died. pulled of radiator cap and white smoke came bursting out of the opening. also the overflow canister was hissing and also was gushing out white smoke, a few minutes later ii noticed white smoke exiting exhaust pipe. i let the car cool down as long as i could( being i was a hour from home) tried to turn her on but nothing. I was able to flag some one down to help me jump the start, but nothing. so i towed the car home. i had zero coolant the next morning so i filled her up and tried turning her over again the and nothing. (cranks but no start ) i checked overflow canister and was white ( kinda like milk). the next day i did a compression test and read 30 psi across all four cylinders.( cylinder number 4 had white smoke exiting from spark plug hole as i was testing)motor only has 110 thousand original miles. As i removed the timing belt i noticed cracks on it. but i checked the cam gear, crank and timing cover marks, and all line up.

i tried to be as discriptive as possible. Thanks

The initial description was fine, I was heading towards the fact that maybe you might have noticed a radiator leak or a loose hose. The symptoms are very much like a head gasket problem except it appears that instead of having coolant leak into your cylinder head, something is leaking into your coolant system. This can be very tricky. Has it been able to turn on since then? Have you checked your thermostat? water pump? coolant lines? Also, check your coolant pressure. I would advise to switch your headgasket...just in case. Also, look for any hidden leaks from hoses. Also when inspecting the hoses try checking for clogging of any sort and if there are any great changes in temperature between hoses. Check the radiator, you can take it to a shop to have it tested to see if maybe that is the culprit.

 

[sbmarco]

car never started since... i did notice some gunky stuff in the opening where the water pump is, and all the coolant hoses are pretty much shot, but what is causing me to have such low compression. thanks for that link by the way very informative

 

[SpeedTechnik]

car never started since... i did notice some gunky stuff in the opening where the water pump is, and all the coolant hoses are pretty much shot, but what is causing me to have such low compression. thanks for that link by the way very informative

Glad to be of help, I would suggest a pressure test for your Coolent system as well. Heres another video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUzOTnsWImI

Im highly suspecting the Head gasket and radiator. Here is a vid on a gas leak test when exhaust gases are being leaked into your coolant system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_SIwHMLmkM

There are many reasons why you could be loosing compression. A big drop like that usually has to do with the head gasket. But at this point it sounds to me like you might need a really good tune up and go from there. Replace all your shot hoses, if the radiator is bad have it replaced. then check all your vacuum lines to test for any leaks whatsoever here is another 2 vids watch both as they are very helpful :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMok2y05jNE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CPqbaSgcok

After doing that, check your fuel system. Check your fuel pump, replace the filter, check all the lines. Once these are done, replace all the fluids and oils in your car. drain the old, pour in the new and bleed out any/all possible air in those system. replace your spark plugs.

You are then ready to start up your car again to be able to do another check up. A compression test, coolent pressure test, and air to fuel ratio.

 

[sbmarco]

Roger that, thanks for all your help man i really appreciate it.

Since the heads already out..i will check valves and guides, lapping, resurfaced,stem seals. Missing anything?
Im not sure if i wanna replace rear main, anyone know any good write ups?

im almost certain their wasn't enough pressure in the coolant. all the main hoses were swollen.

and im hopping the head work will eliminate are other problem.

I will definatily try to replace as much as possible.


peace

 

[SpeedTechnik]

You didn't miss much but you have the gist of it, which is a really good start. There are many write ups on here and other forums that can help you along your way. You may also want to check your water pump and see if that was the culprit or contributor. The head work should help a lot! Also, if you would like you can post pics up here with updates to help anyone else in your situation.

 

[RonJ]

Sounds like the water pump may have catastrophically failed, resulting in loss of all coolant and engine overheating.

Mistakes you made:

1. You removed the head prior to doing necessary diagnostic tests.
   
2. After the car was home, you should have refilled the cooling system with coolant and pressure tested the system to pinpoint the leak, which was probably the water pump.
   
3. Assuming that you did the cylinder compression test correctly (details?), you should have followed with a leak down test to locate where compression was lost.
   
4. You also should have tested for spark at all 4 plugs and determined whether the fuel pump primed.

Now you're left guessing. To move forward intelligently, you likely need to reinstall the head and do the tests I mentioned.

The main concern is that the engine severely overheated and is now irreparably damaged.

 

[SpeedTechnik]

Sounds like the water pump may have catastrophically failed, resulting in loss of all coolant and engine overheating.

Mistakes you made:

1. You removed the head prior to doing necessary diagnostic tests.
   
2. After the car was home, you should have refilled the cooling system with coolant and pressure tested the system to pinpoint the leak, which was probably the water pump.
   
3. Assuming that you did the cylinder compression test correctly (details?), you should have followed with a leak down test to locate where compression was lost.
   
4. You also should have tested for spark at all 4 plugs and determined whether the fuel pump primed.

Now you're left guessing. To move forward intelligently, you likely need to reinstall the head and do the tests I mentioned.

The main concern is that the engine severely overheated and is now irreparably damaged.

Same thing I figured...(about the water pump)

I also took into account the mistakes...I figured that he would at least need to do the tune up to get her firing a spark to do the tests correctly...I feel that it would provide a more accurate reading and would provide a better answer on what to do from there (whether the damage is irreparable and he should do a swap or continue to fix)
Was I wrong on that or my advice?? I would hate to have done so...

 

[RonJ]

Was I wrong on that or my advice??

It's fine. No worries.

 

[sbmarco]

update.i definitely should have troubleshooted more before i took the head off. But its all good. I appreciate the help. upon removing my water pump, i noticed rust forming on the housing( definitely obstructing coolant flow.

i am going to begin removing the valves tomorrow, so do you guys have suggestions on how to keep each valve with its respective rocker arm? If i understand the manual correctly, i am suppose to bundle both intake
rocker arms together. ( must i reinstall them in the exact same spot which i removed them?)

thanks for the help, peace

 

[SpeedTechnik]

update.i definitely should have troubleshooted more before i took the head off. But its all good. I appreciate the help. upon removing my water pump, i noticed rust forming on the housing( definitely obstructing coolant flow.

i am going to begin removing the valves tomorrow, so do you guys have suggestions on how to keep each valve with its respective rocker arm? If i understand the manual correctly, i am suppose to bundle both intake
rocker arms together. ( must i reinstall them in the exact same spot which i removed them?)

thanks for the help, peace

Honestly, every time I do it I use a box ....kind of like an egg carton. And I organize it in such a way where I will keep everything in order. I do not switch any valves at all. I keep everything organized and together and sometimes I will mark them just in case. some say it doesn't matter, some say it does. When I am not replacing them I like to play it safe and keep them organized. but when im replacing them I don't care except that exhaust valves and intake valves must never be mixed. at all! they have correspondive places and it should be covered in the manual

 

[sbmarco]

Can a severe vaccum leak cause low compression on all cylinders? Iow enough not to start the engine?
I sent the head out to get machined, and i purchased new hoses.
Can i use brake clean to clean parts?( inside intake, waterpump housing,iactv)

Do you use copper spray on headgasket?
Do i need new head bolts, or can i reuse the old ones?

How difficult is replacjng the rear main? While the heads at the shop i wanna replace it, but i heard its a b***h.

Oem thermostat?

Also, there is black gunk on the tips of the injectors. Is that normal?
Thanks for the help

 

[SpeedTechnik]

Can a severe vaccum leak cause low compression on all cylinders? Iow enough not to start the engine?
I sent the head out to get machined, and i purchased new hoses.
Can i use brake clean to clean parts?( inside intake, waterpump housing,iactv)

Do you use copper spray on headgasket?
Do i need new head bolts, or can i reuse the old ones?

How difficult is replacjng the rear main? While the heads at the shop i wanna replace it, but i heard its a b****.

Oem thermostat?

Also, there is black gunk on the tips of the injectors. Is that normal?
Thanks for the help

A vacuum leak can cause all sorts of things. Brake cleaner is fine, just make sure to clean/rinse it well before installation and use so that you don't have unwanted chemical fed into the engine. I have heard of people using copper spray and other things but honestly just stick to the service manual. The rear main seal shouldn't be a problem since you are replacing most of the hoses and you have the cylinder head off etc etc. Just follow your service manual to spec and you should be fine. Oem thermostat is fine but check the one you already have so that you don't replace things that don't need to. That black gunk can be the reason for low compression or a big contributor. make sure you clean them well and test them to make sure they are firing and don't have gunk on the inside.

 

[sbmarco]

ok so i cleaned the injectors, and as i was inspecting the iactv(located behind the intake) i noticed gunk completly covering the little hole.
what is this gunk? carbon build up?
What is best way to clean the carbon build up on the intake?

im guessing i had such low compression for a number of reasons, but the main one is probably the lack of volumetric efficiency..

 

[SpeedTechnik]

ok so i cleaned the injectors, and as i was inspecting the iactv(located behind the intake) i noticed gunk completly covering the little hole.
what is this gunk? carbon build up?
What is best way to clean the carbon build up on the intake?

im guessing i had such low compression for a number of reasons, but the main one is probably the lack of volumetric efficiency..

That "gunk" can be a number of things (most likely carbon build up) but the importance is that you get everything clean so that it gives you a clean maximizing output. You can use many products to clean, the most common form is brake cleaner. I personally use Berryman's Chemtool whenever I am doing a complete rebuild. Also, make sure to do this gently and not disturb/scratch the surfaces. Try to get most of any gunk out without damage to the surface. I found a video of a guy using Berryman's Chemtool to clean his pistons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRiZOTTel34

I honestly recommend it but you have to be careful with it because it's strong and can cause damage to aluminum parts. As long as you follow the instructions you should be fine. Also, sometimes the build up wont get loose enough because the chemical solution does it in layers if it is really thick so after you take any part out of the chemical solution, scrub it to get whatever is loose out and then rinse with water. After that just put it back into the solution and wait the required amount and repeat until they are clean.

 

[sbmarco]

The chemtool is some nice stuff. its like a mini hot tank lol. I will be using brake cleaner tho. I should be getting my head back in a couple of days, so i still have time to prep the parts.

Will i need new head studs, or will i be able to reuse my old ones?
Do i use hondabond all around the waterpump?

What is the best way to clean the block surface? Can i use a file and brake clean? I was gonna stuff shop rags into the cylinders to prevent unwanted debree from entering.

Anything else i must do before reinstalling everything?

How do i prime the fuel pump?

Also my pcv valve broke off, and i was wondering how do you get it out of the intake hole?

Thanks, peace.

 

[Hendo]

I can't answer all your questions, but you should replace your head bolts (or studs) since they stretch. And I doubt using a file on the block is a good idea. Brake cleaner and a PLASTIC putty knife, any scratches will mess with the seal of the head gasket.

 

[SpeedTechnik]

The chemtool is some nice stuff. its like a mini hot tank lol. I will be using brake cleaner tho. I should be getting my head back in a couple of days, so i still have time to prep the parts.

Will i need new head studs, or will i be able to reuse my old ones?
Do i use hondabond all around the waterpump?

What is the best way to clean the block surface? Can i use a file and brake clean? I was gonna stuff shop rags into the cylinders to prevent unwanted debree from entering.

Anything else i must do before reinstalling everything?

How do i prime the fuel pump?

Also my pcv valve broke off, and i was wondering how do you get it out of the intake hole?

Thanks, peace.

In order of correspondence:

1) It is Highly recommended, but if your head bolts are in good shape you can reuse them. Just make sure to rethread them.

2)You can use any sealant, but if you can get a hold of Honda bond you can surely use it to keep a peace of mind if you have doubts about other sealants. Just make sure you use it correctly as shown in your service manual.

3)Placing rags in the cylinder heads is fine, although it would be better if you can seal them completely to make sure you don't throw in any foreign contaminants. As far as cleaning the block, I have seen many methods but stay away from anything that can disturb the surface of the block. Do not use a file, You can use things such as a razorblade or putty knife and brake cleaner but remember to clean it well and thoroughly to prevent foreign contaminants. I personally lightly use an air pressurized/powered(pneumatic) (hand-sized) polish tool to clean it. I do so very carefully and check the surface constantly using the proper tools that would be used at any machine shop.

4)Yes, but that all depends on what you already know. I would suggest to get a diagram of how everything (meaning vacuum lines, coolant lines, and fuel lines) is hooked up so that you don't run in to any trouble starting the engine. Thise would be the time to check any and all hoses + things that aren't as accessible once you reassemble.

5) Before I go ahead and answer this, Why do you need to manually prime your fuel pump?

6)Before I answer this one, what piece broke? How did it break? can you see it?