Civic V8 swap

[NoName12]

HI all.

I'll start off by saying that this isn't a troll post, I am totally serious.

I am interested in swapping a larger engine into a civic, namely a V8. I'm currently in the very early planning stages as I can only start such a project after moving to a place with more room since I'm sorely lacking it.

Why?

Well, I love domestic brands most of all, no need to ask why. I actually dig the civic but I can't stand the ricer boy thing that goes on with these cars. Now, you might be shaking your head at this point, but I may just have a solution for this issue: A V8! That's right! A mean, loud, large V8 with enough grunt to make any grown man wet his pants with glee (maybe other stuff too?). I'm figuring on using a Ford 4.6l engine for this swap, it's very large engine dimensionally so I'm worried about how much room there is under the hood of these little cars.

I want to use this engine because it's my most loved V8, it's pretty modern (dohc, ohc), makes good power, reliable as it gets, aftermarket support, etc. I don't have a car to take measurements from to figure out what's possible yet, so I was hoping someone would help by giving me an idea of what it would take to fit this thing under the hood, it's a big engine. I'm not at all familiar with Honda electronics, wiring, or anything at all really with regards to how they're different from working on fords and chevies. Are engine swaps from different makes at all common in the civic community? They look like a fairly easy car to work on.

My main idea would be 450+ HP, RWD with a stick, mustang suspension setup, if it gets forced air it will be supercharged, maybe still street legal.

The engine measurements are:

----------------
4.6L SOHC

28 Inches

26 Inches

28-5/8 Inches
---------------
4.6L DOHC

28 Inches

29-7/8 Inches

30 Inches

Big engine, eh?

From googling I've found several civics with this type of swap and they look sort of like a hack job (different engines, but V8s) and I want something way better. I'm not too worried about the difficulty of a project like this, I just need a plan on how to do this before I'm ready, so any advice would be welcome. I know this might get a less than welcoming response by some people here, but honestly, where the hell else do you go to ask these questions?

If you really can't stand the idea of this project, you can press the back button obviously, or continue to enrage yourself.

 

[lockdown643]

As I am going to assume most people are going to think your crazy and try to shoot down this idea but I had it for the longest time. I am going to support you with little information I know and hope it helps. A year or so ago I noticed a civic at a car show with a V8 in it. He had to completely rebuild the dash and move it back about 6 inches to cope with the large engine. With the larger engine he made it rear wheel as well but handling went out the window and I never saw that benefit unless its just for fun. Also the steering column had to be modified and I believe he used an engine and a transmission out of a Corvette... Dont remember too much else but I remember it being a heck of a job and it looked cramped within the civic because the V8 took up so much space. Good luck and I would like to know how that build goes.

 

[XpL0d3r]

If you don't want the ricer style.. just build the f**k out of the block and boost it... will be better than any V8 out there and still get better gas mileage.

BUT.. I like your idea.. very different.. and assuming very difficult. Will most likely be a LOT of custom fab work, something more than what that guy did who put a WRX engine in his civic..

Anyways, good luck!

 

[NoName12]

If you don't want the ricer style.. just build the f**k out of the block and boost it... will be better than any V8 out there and still get better gas mileage.

Sorry, I just don't get how boosting and building a rice burner makes you less ricy. I don't have any real hate for 4 bangers, I've had my share of cars with them but I don't believe in modding or working on an engine that is more about economy than anything. I also feel that your comment about it beating a V8 is subjective too, I know everyone hates on displacement in these places so it's understandable, however if you want to consider yourself a motor enthusiast you must understand what makes these engines so cool. That's my stance on it.

The block wil be built, and possibly supercharged, anyway. You guys can think about it as two 4 bangers sharing the same crank

You can't beat the rumble: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmP3au8UoXc

BUT.. I like your idea.. very different.. and assuming very difficult. Will most likely be a LOT of custom fab work, something more than what that guy did who put a WRX engine in his civic..

Anyways, good luck!

Thanks! I can't really get into the norm, as in projects that have been done to death. Like I said, I'm not overly worried about fabrication, since I have a few ideas about how I want to do it. In my mind it would be somewhat simular to the V8 Focus setup, my largest worry is the wiring and keeping it as stock as possible, like all hvac stuff working, radio, ignition/keys, speedo, etc... I don't know much about these cars so this might be an issue. I'm pretty good with wiring in general. I will post back with my ideas for the engine and drive-train soon, I'm still looking into what I want.

As I am going to assume most people are going to think your crazy and try to shoot down this idea but I had it for the longest time. I am going to support you with little information I know and hope it helps. A year or so ago I noticed a civic at a car show with a V8 in it. He had to completely rebuild the dash and move it back about 6 inches to cope with the large engine. With the larger engine he made it rear wheel as well but handling went out the window and I never saw that benefit unless its just for fun. Also the steering column had to be modified and I believe he used an engine and a transmission out of a Corvette... Dont remember too much else but I remember it being a heck of a job and it looked cramped within the civic because the V8 took up so much space. Good luck and I would like to know how that build goes.

That was the first V8 civic I found, it's also sort of the thing that inspiried me to start this project. I think it looked a little hackish though. Thank you for the kind words, hopefully more people will take interrest in this project.

Also, where can I see this WRX swap?

 

[Robin...]

If you don't want the ricer style.. just build the f**k out of the block and boost it... will be better than any V8 out there and still get better gas mileage.

BUT.. I like your idea.. very different.. and assuming very difficult. Will most likely be a LOT of custom fab work, something more than what that guy did who put a WRX engine in his civic..

Anyways, good luck!

Goodluck...

 

[NoName12]

I didn't get much of a chance to do research today, but I wrote up some of my ideas for the car and a little info about the engine, I am going to be researching the suspension and rwd aspect of it for the next while, as this will take lots of figuring. I have enclosed a few questions below, too.

The Engine:

I realize that many people here are completely unfamiliar with these engines, so I'll take a few moments to explain what it is that I will be shoehorning in the car.

In the mid 80s Ford decided that it would be best to ditch pushrods in favour of overhead cams, which is still the subject of debate in the V8 communities to this day. Chevy guys hate it, Ford guys tend to go both ways, and it has made for tons of flame wars. The last pushrod engine made by Ford was the 3.0 V6 that came out in 1986 for the Taurus, the Modular V8 didn't drop onto the market until 1991. It's not Fords first OHC engine though, but it signified the changeover from pushrods to ohc for Ford. The engine is very well known for its size, it's very large dimensionally for the displacement. The engine is also likely Fords most reliable engine still in production; it has been taken passed 1 million miles without a rebuild. 500,000 miles is about average for fleet vehicles that use it. It has some issues, but none overly horrible. The intakes cracked and leaked on older engines, spark plugs do like to blow out if the threads get damaged, it also has issues with spark plugs breaking during removal.

It also powers most of Fords performance cars, the blocks are generally able to take massive amounts of hp and abuse (1000hp on a stock block, some have made 1500hp out of them). The aftermarket isn't quite as cheap as the SBC or SBF stuff, but they aren't modern enough for this project in my opinion. These engines don't make 1hp/l in stock form mostly, but that doesn't mean that they can't take way more than that.

I love the engine for its look:

I think it would look good under the hood, it wouldn't be very out of place.

If you don't know much about V8 engines, I have provided a few links for anyone to study that might be interested in learning how such an engine works:

http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/v8-engines
This site is really great, it talks about everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_engine
This is obvious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine
The engine for the project


I'm thinking supercharger setup, forged internals. I think a donor vehicle will be needed for an easy start as you can't buy everything that cheaply.

One issue is size, the engine is larger than a 460 Ford or a BBC, that's saying a lot. This site has a great comparison picture: 4.6 versus the 5.0 windsor engine.

The Car:

1999 Honda Civic two door. I haven't obtained the car yet, but I'm hoping to find something with a blown engine for cheap. I might (big might) travel down to the US within the year, if I do I would love to get a car from the south that has little to no rust, since that's pretty hard to find where I am.

I'm going to have many more questions, but here's a few to start:

How easy is it to route exhaust under the car? I wouldn't think that dual pipes are at all common on these cars.

What are the engine bay dimensions? What is the overall height of the hood line?

Are there oversized hoods available for more clearance?

What is the clearance between the dash and center of the floor?

I am looking for pictures of an engine bay, front suspension setup and a detailed overview of under the rear, anyone know of a good engine replacement/swap thread with such pictures?

Cooling will obviously need upgrading, what can you fit in the front?

I'm guessing the fuel tank might be in the way, but that would be relocated to the trunk area or something anyway, I doubt the drive-line will allow it to stay down there.

What is the average weight of an engine+transmission in a Civic?

Ultimate Goal:

A red, 1999ish two door civic with 450+ HP at the wheels, RWD, supercharged, stick, lowered and nice enough to show off. It needs to sound good too. I would love to test it against anyone here with their modded cars (300 and above, but we'll see) whenever it's done, I think it would do very well. This thing should get some attention, both love and hate.

Now, on to look at suspension possibilities!

 

[Spencer_JDM]

Why would u wanna put a V8 n a civic? Jus dnt make since if ur gonna do that jus get a damn cavalier lmao n build n boostn a civic is a great idea instead of tha V8 cuz after u build it n u have a good exhaust n have a good set up it won't sound ricey have a good deep sound plus I kno bunch of hondas that will bust a V8's ass lol

 

[JohnS.]

I understand not wanting to modify a 4 banger because it was made for "economy", but if you look, there are plenty of 4 banger Honda's that run just as fast as V8's, if not faster. If you go to the Off-Topic section here, there is a Civic that broke 8's.

I love big V8's. Back when I was in high school, I had a friend that had a bad ass 4th gen Z28. It wasn't "FAST" by any means (high 13's) but the torque was still insane and there's nothing like the rumble of a V8.

But at the same time, this is a Honda community. Most of the people here are 4 banger enthusiasts so you're going to hear a lot of crickets with this. It's always cool though to see people do these kinds of swaps.

 

[Aaron.]

cool idea but the whole problem with this is traction, which is going to be non existent

 

[NoName12]

Why would u wanna put a V8 n a civic? Jus dnt make since if ur gonna do that jus get a damn cavalier lmao n build n boostn a civic is a great idea instead of tha V8 cuz after u build it n u have a good exhaust n have a good set up it won't sound ricey have a good deep sound plus I kno bunch of hondas that will bust a V8's ass lol

Well, you could refer to my first post. I could continue by saying that I want to do something more than working an engine, this project is about massive modification, not some bolt ons. We're talking $11,000+ here, a serious project. It's about being different, a turbo 4 isn't unique at all. Plus, I'm no GM fan, I love Ford. Like I keep saying, this will be boosted too.

I love V engines most of all, the only inline I really truly love is an inline six.

Also, I know a lot of V8s that would curb stomp any 4 banger. That's a subjective statement. It's all about the money you put into it.

I understand not wanting to modify a 4 banger because it was made for "economy", but if you look, there are plenty of 4 banger Honda's that run just as fast as V8's, if not faster. If you go to the Off-Topic section here, there is a Civic that broke 8's.

I wouldn't doubt there are some fast civics, but like I said above, this is more than engine building.

I love big V8's. Back when I was in high school, I had a friend that had a bad ass 4th gen Z28. It wasn't "FAST" by any means (high 13's) but the torque was still insane and there's nothing like the rumble of a V8.

But at the same time, this is a Honda community. Most of the people here are 4 banger enthusiasts so you're going to hear a lot of crickets with this. It's always cool though to see people do these kinds of swaps.

I'm glad someone agrees with me about the sound. I figured there would either be crickets or flaming, but like I said, where do you go to get info on this? This project is technically a civic project. I feel kind of sorry for the people here who can't get into a project like this, there's more in life than 4 bangers, guys!

 

[mymmeryloss]

When u finish it in ten years ill congratulate u.

Seems u are the one that doesn't understand engines. Its not all about displacement. And this has been done quite a few times before..

 

[NoName12]

When u finish it in ten years ill congratulate u.

Seems u are the one that doesn't understand engines. Its not all about displacement. And this has been done quite a few times before..

Will you congratulate me when/if I finish it sooner?

Here's the deal: I don't really care for you. If you want a debate, it won't be happening in this thread as the subject pertains to installing a V8 into a Civic, not why they're better. I know too much about engines to start talking about why displacement isn't everything, if you want to fanboy it up, go argue with someone who cares.

Refer to the end of my first post.

 

[sohclubkid]

okay... when you buy a civic and a V8 and matching drivetrain, then ill get excited. untill then, im going to chalk this up to all talk.

i would really like to see this come to life though...

 

[Jeegz]

4.6L is not very big at all.

IMO its a waste of your own time and money.

 

[nicoyita1]

google civette. There's an entire build thread on hondatech about it....

 

[FRODO]

4.6L is not very big at all.

IMO its a waste of your own time and money. I think your better off posting on a different site.

What would be better? Its a civic and last time I checked this is ClubCivic.com

You and all the above people that have nothing to contribute to the OPs topic that is not constructive criticism or helpful should learn where the back button on your browser. These and many other post remind me why I left this site for years and why many many other real "members" of this site have left, all the bullshit and useless posting that goes on and is allowed to.


OP- good luck with your project and be sure to post pictures when you began will be interesting to see it. I have seen a few civics with the s2000 swap down and it appears like the there might not be to much moving of the firewall to fit the v8 setup in. It should give you can idea on the rear end setup too, and the possibility of adapting that rear end for its size.

 

[Jeegz]

I voiced my opinion. I think v8 swaps into civics are a waste of money. But its his money to waste. So if he wants to really do this build he will. But i still think its a waste.

 

[FRODO]

I voiced my opinion. I think v8 swaps into civics are a waste of money. But its his money to waste. So if he wants to really do this build he will. But i still think its a waste.

Great info I am sure you will get him closer to his goal and have helped him a lot.

 

[CivicHX]

Why would u wanna put a V8 n a civic? Jus dnt make since if ur gonna do that jus get a damn cavalier lmao n build n boostn a civic is a great idea instead of tha V8 cuz after u build it n u have a good exhaust n have a good set up it won't sound ricey have a good deep sound plus I kno bunch of hondas that will bust a V8's ass lol

Have you ever seen what a well built V8 in a car the size and weight of a civic can do? Especially if your talking a "modern" engine. These 4bangers with dohc's and 4 valves per cylinder are awesome, but if you have all 8 that way think of the possibilities.
Many "supercars" have V8's or bigger engines I dont think I have heard of many civic's beating them I would love to see one do it.

I understand not wanting to modify a 4 banger because it was made for "economy", but if you look, there are plenty of 4 banger Honda's that run just as fast as V8's, if not faster. If you go to the Off-Topic section here, there is a Civic that broke 8's.

I love big V8's. Back when I was in high school, I had a friend that had a bad ass 4th gen Z28. It wasn't "FAST" by any means (high 13's) but the torque was still insane and there's nothing like the rumble of a V8.

But at the same time, this is a Honda community. Most of the people here are 4 banger enthusiasts so you're going to hear a lot of crickets with this. It's always cool though to see people do these kinds of swaps.

I have always loved the rumble of the V8. I think with the right engine this could be a WOW project.

Good Luck, and I really hope you complete it, and reasonably soon.

 

[NoName12]

okay... when you buy a civic and a V8 and matching drivetrain, then ill get excited. untill then, im going to chalk this up to all talk.

i would really like to see this come to life though...

I understand, it might seem far fetched when you don't have the stuff yet. But you gotta start somewhere. Thank you for the interest though.

4.6L is not very big at all.

IMO its a waste of your own time and money.

It's not a large engine with regards to its displacement, that is correct. I wouldn't tend to disagree with you about wasting money, since everyone with a brain knows that restoring cars or investing significant amounts of money into a car project will return basically nothing. You could spend $40,000 restoring a mustang and sell it for $15,000, for example. I am well aware of these facts, but it's not like I care. I'm glad I have other people to worry about my monies, though.

What would be better? Its a civic and last time I checked this is ClubCivic.com

OP- good luck with your project and be sure to post pictures when you began will be interesting to see it. I have seen a few civics with the s2000 swap down and it appears like the there might not be to much moving of the firewall to fit the v8 setup in. It should give you can idea on the rear end setup too, and the possibility of adapting that rear end for its size.

If you did have a suggestion, like a Honda forum where people are interested in seeing people install other things besides fart cans, then speak up. I guess I could try the mustang forums, but they will probably act in a similar fashion and they won't know much, if anything about these cars.

Even if the project isn't done on this site, I'll update anyone who replies with interest to see it with a pm to the build thread, wherever it ends up. Thanks for your interest. I haven't looked at the s2000 swaps yet, I guess it's time to go and look at those swaps for ideas

Have you ever seen what a well built V8 in a car the size and weight of a civic can do? Especially if your talking a "modern" engine. These 4bangers with dohc's and 4 valves per cylinder are awesome, but if you have all 8 that way think of the possibilities.
Many "supercars" have V8's or bigger engines I dont think I have heard of many civic's beating them I would love to see one do it.

I'm a firm believer that it's all about the money you put into it, an engine that was built for $5,000 will likely beat the engine that was built for $2,000. Displacement is an option, like turbos, supercharging and nos, but like I said, it's the money and combination that makes a winning engine. I'm sure for every 20 500+hp V8s there's far fewer 500+hp civics out there, it would stand to reason when you look at the products available; after-market blocks, heads, etc... You can build an entire 351w without any Ford parts, for example. There's no limit. I believe the reason why most overly expensive cars use V8s or larger is also to do with sound and engine smoothness, at least in part. I like the idea of having more than 4 cylinders, it's about engine design.

I have always loved the rumble of the V8. I think with the right engine this could be a WOW project.

Good Luck, and I really hope you complete it, and reasonably soon.

Corssplane cranks make the sound, it has to do with the exhaust being uneven. It makes probably for one of the greatest sounding engines ever. There's lots of info about it in the links of my previous post, if anyone wants to learn about the burble. Thanks for your interest, this project needs lots of it.