Input requested. *Please read*

[TigBitties]

IDK if i should say this, so you guys can delete if you think it should be.. but I would say that the current mods do not just sit there and agree to anything Anthony and Joe say, and we will say if we disagree if we do. We also bring up pretty many ideas too

 

[joe7987]

I have read what you've said and I have some further things to speak with you about, but I need to speak with the rest of the mod staff before I make that decision. We decided as a whole to keep quiet in this thread and it's not up to me to make the decision to change that on the fly. I'll speak with them and get their clearance before I respond. If you would like a quicker response, you may PM me, but I think you want this conversation to be public - and I understand why.

I will speak to the staff and see if they think it's a good idea for me to speak with you in this thread or if it will ruin the course of the thread.

 

[RonJ]

I am in no need of a quick response. In fact, I really did not expect any staff responses based on the premise of this thread. At this point, I have given more than my allowable amount of opinion on how to make CC better. I think it's now time for other members to give their honest input. I would also encourage former moderators to share your thoughts here and to give honest or even shocking feelings about your experiences. In addition, former moderators may disagree with what I have said, if that is your true belief, so that CC gets a variety of opinions to digest.

WHERE ARE ALL OF THE FORMER MODS? Here's your one chance to say what you really think!

 

[vjf915]

Ron. I greatly appreciate your input in this thread, as it is VERY extensive. I'm glad that we had ONE member who has expressed their opinion that extensively, and wish that even more would do the same.....so please don't hesitate to reply to any of our comments.

That being said, although we have had some bumps in the road, I strongly believe that the current staff we have will grow not only in size but grow as a collective unit. We don't always agree, but the staff members that we have now know how to voice their opinion and do it in a proper manner. We aren't afraid to say what we feel, that's what I love about this staff....and that's why I plan to stay as long as possible. We are also willing to work, and plan to do whatever we can to get this site more active.

 

[Puma]

This thread is still going and still no change?! GOSH

I keed I keed!

Ron...hats off to you for having the ca-honies to voice your thorough opinions and have them validated as well. I'll admit I'm a pansy and figured I'd get screamed at so I left the convo.

 

[RonJ]

That being said, although we have had some bumps in the road, I strongly believe that the current staff we have will grow not only in size but grow as a collective unit. We don't always agree, but the staff members that we have now know how to voice their opinion and do it in a proper manner. We aren't afraid to say what we feel, that's what I love about this staff....and that's why I plan to stay as long as possible. We are also willing to work, and plan to do whatever we can to get this site more active.

These may be positive signs, but without strong and insightful leadership, you may become frustrated by good discussions and ideas that lead nowhere. Continue to hope that Justin gets more involved but, if he can't step up fully himself, then place your hope on him replacing Anthony with someone having more vision. Otherwise, the downward spiral will continue. Good luck.

 

[joe7987]

Ok... I've been given clearance to speak in this thread now that everyone has given their opinion.

The dwindling staff number has become a direct result of our attempts to end senseless bickering, remove closed-mindedness, and filter out hunger for power. At least 2 of the former mods that are no longer with the staff had "team issues". As an example of a team issue, I cite the example of complete unwillingness to go with the majority opinion. It didn't matter if the entire staff agreed with something. If that particular staff member(s) didn't agree with it, according to him, it shouldn't be that way.

This is a quality that is hindering in the mod staff. We need everyone to be on the same page. That doesn't mean that we all have to agree with each other, but nothing should be taken personal and the majority vote should be accepted, even if it doesn't agree with the way you were raised or the way you think.

I agree with Victor when he said he thinks we're moving in the right direction. Our numbers are small right now, but we've been scouting out new members who have been helpful across the board, not just in off topic and we will be adding to the staff shortly. In addition, we recently added a new staff member who seems to be very level-headed, but is quite a bit younger than the rest of us. We did this in order to get a different viewpoint, someone who's a bit newer to the site and may have different ideals. We had hoped this would help us round out the staff and add diversity.

You mentioned that there may be a group of mods who are afraid to speak up to me. I truthfully and honestly wish that any moderator who sees fault in me state it in here, publicly. That is a request and a desire. Victor, Xploder, Greg, Anthony, Justin, and anyone who I may not be thinking of at the moment - please speak honestly and truthfully if you think I am closed-minded or have any other flaw that you see as a detriment to the staff.

I think your short time as moderator was during one of the worst times in CC moderator history. A certain staff member made things VERY difficult for everyone. The situation was handled, by Jay Jay directly. Everything has been much smoother since.

We've got some big changes in the works in which planning will most likely begin this weekend or early in the week. I can think of at least one change we're speaking about that is going to take some time to implement... but I assure you that it's a DRASTIC change. This change shouldn't be rushed... really really shouldn't be rushed, so please be patient for it.

As a minor change, among other things, we're working on the chat box feature. Jay Jay has actively been searching for one that "doesn't suck". Most of you don't know this because you don't get the opportunity to speak with him often, but he's a perfectionist. Hopefully you will be seeing him more in the public forum. I can't speak for that though. I do know that he's been doing his best to be more active in the mod lounge though.

As far as Anthony goes, I know why you have your suspicions and I know why you made the comments you did. Things have been very different in the past several months as compared to when you were a moderator. Everything has been very democratic. Overall, I really believe that Anthony is a good admin. His recent lack of activity has been warranted. We've already spoken about it and he's allayed my fears.

I hope this post has given you some sort of insight. There's only so much I can tell you without you having experienced what's been going on yourself.

 

[JohnS.]

I honestly don't think there are enough people on here who care about what's going on on CC atm. People just post their rides, post the same tech threads that get covered on a weekly basis, and post in OT for some fun chat. I'm honestly not sure if any changes would stimulate any activity..... I would personally like to see photo contests and ride contests come back. A lot of people post their rides in members rides section. I don't see why the ride contests wouldn't work out, even if you get 3-5 people. People may not see the thread in the photo section or OT section so post in every members ride section with a link to the main ride contest thread and lock the thread.

Even though I agreed to some of what Ron has said, now that I sit back and think about it, the moderator staff is doing pretty well. At least compared to what it used to be. The only thing I'd like to see is moderators participating more in tech sections. Jolly posted a sticky in the exterior section ever since he became mod there but I don't think I've seen him post once since. I know I don't read every post so I could be wrong. Can real life be getting in the way? Sure. But if you guys are going to appoint mods to sections, at least appoint people who actively post.

And I really don't think the staff is to blame for the more active people leaving... Petey has a life now doing photography and whatever else he does. Ej6Civic (Ryan) has a wife and son now and just lost interest here. Several people have shipped out for active duty. Again, I don't think anyone is to blame. People grow older, life changes, and they move on to other things. While I agree things are a little dull on here, I don't think some people take into the account the fact that people actually leave CC for a reason, not just because it's boring.

 

[oc_civic]

I honestly don't think there are enough people on here who care about what's going on on CC atm. People just post their rides, post the same tech threads that get covered on a weekly basis, and post in OT for some fun chat.

+1

that has been the problem for some time..

 

[vjf915]

I just want to say that Joe nailed everything. That is pretty much how the majority of the staff feels.

John. We are working on bringing at least the featured ride competition back, Greg and I will be hosting it. Pretty soon we will be working out some more kinks in the guidelines, and then posting the new details up.

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

Ok... I've been given clearance to speak in this thread now that everyone has given their opinion.

The dwindling staff number has become a direct result of our attempts to end senseless bickering, remove closed-mindedness, and filter out hunger for power. At least 2 of the former mods that are no longer with the staff had "team issues". As an example of a team issue, I cite the example of complete unwillingness to go with the majority opinion. It didn't matter if the entire staff agreed with something. If that particular staff member(s) didn't agree with it, according to him, it shouldn't be that way.

If you're going to give an example, give a name. I resigned because I got tired of being the minority and no one taking my opinion seriously. There was no point in being on a team if your opinion isn't being taking seriously. My best interest was in the CC, to bring new members in. The current staffs best intention is to keep the current members but make them post more.

Example? Right now. The majoirty of posting in this thread is OGs, current staff has not gone out of their to talk to those that they really need, the new members and the lurkers.

I fought hard for that New Members section, I fought for that even before I was a mod.

This is a quality that is hindering in the mod staff. We need everyone to be on the same page. That doesn't mean that we all have to agree with each other, but nothing should be taken personal and the majority vote should be accepted, even if it doesn't agree with the way you were raised or the way you think.

This majority vote is going to kill the site and the quality of it. You have no checks and balances, you have staff members that are "Yes" men, no one in the current staff has the balls to argue with leadership, to fight for their opinion.

You want an example. Look at the state of the current political situation. That's an example of where staff is going, where majority does what they want and ignores the minorities opinion, then all the fights begin and then your are at where we are today.

I resigned because I got tired of having "Yes" men agree with whatever the leadership says.

I agree with Victor when he said he thinks we're moving in the right direction. Our numbers are small right now, but we've been scouting out new members who have been helpful across the board, not just in off topic and we will be adding to the staff shortly. In addition, we recently added a new staff member who seems to be very level-headed, but is quite a bit younger than the rest of us. We did this in order to get a different viewpoint, someone who's a bit newer to the site and may have different ideals. We had hoped this would help us round out the staff and add diversity.

This was done with 1SIK, he's a good guy, but it never turned into what it should have been.

You mentioned that there may be a group of mods who are afraid to speak up to me. I truthfully and honestly wish that any moderator who sees fault in me state it in here, publicly. That is a request and a desire. Victor, Xploder, Greg, Anthony, Justin, and anyone who I may not be thinking of at the moment - please speak honestly and truthfully if you think I am closed-minded or have any other flaw that you see as a detriment to the staff.

Ever since Biz was removed, you've changed, the whole staff has changed. It went from making compromises and having a decent argument, to "Majority rules. Either agree with us, or shut up." I got tired of that.

I think your short time as moderator was during one of the worst times in CC moderator history. A certain staff member made things VERY difficult for everyone. The situation was handled, by Jay Jay directly. Everything has been much smoother since.

It was smoother until the last week or two, where it completely turned around.

Current staff needs to consider major changes with how staff works, and get in some checks and balances to those that don't agree with majority can still have their opinions heard, and compromises made for those. Until then, all you're doing is hindering growth.

 

[got traction]

 

[FlipSkater079]

I know you said you wouldn't bring them back but I really enjoyed gen-specific sections.

 

[vjf915]

If you're going to give an example, give a name. I resigned because I got tired of being the minority and no one taking my opinion seriously. There was no point in being on a team if your opinion isn't being taking seriously. My best interest was in the CC, to bring new members in. The current staffs best intention is to keep the current members but make them post more.

Example? Right now. The majoirty of posting in this thread is OGs, current staff has not gone out of their to talk to those that they really need, the new members and the lurkers.

Jason, none of us are "yes men". You have never voiced that as your opinion, so please don't start just because Ron used that phrase. And if I remember correctly, you "resigned" in a burst of anger and said "f*** it, modding used to be fun." As we have told you several times...we aren't on the staff to have fun, we are here to help the site and help the members.

I created the interest for this thread in the mod lounge, the rest of the staff was on board....except for you. You eventually agreed. We asked the members what they want in an unrestricted area. We didn't post it in VIP, we posted it in the area of the site that is accessible to EVERYONE and gets the most traffic. What more can we do? Should we send out mass PM's to over 90k+ members asking what they think? If we ask the members what they want....and they don't voice their opinions, how is that our fault?

This was done with 1SIK, he's a good guy, but it never turned into what it should have been.

Greg is a great moderator, and is VERY eager to put time and effort into helping the site. Regardless of what the initial intentions were, I am very happy that he was added to the staff.

Current staff needs to consider major changes with how staff works, and get in some checks and balances to those that don't agree with majority can still have their opinions heard, and compromises made for those. Until then, all you're doing is hindering growth.

We ALL have the opportunity to speak our minds, and voice any opinions that we want. However, all of us understand that if 6 mods think Plan A will work, and 1 mod thinks Plan B will work......we are going to go with Plan A.

 

[got traction]

It sounds like a majority of the issues this forum has stem from the moderators.

 

[joe7987]

+1 to what Victor said. You didn't even want this thread to happen. I clearly remember you saying something similar to "Don't make that thread, they'll just start a b***h fest and we'll have to explain ourselves over and over again." Yes, almost those exact words.

You mention that nobody listened to the minority. By the minority you mean you. By listen you mean agree. You had ideas that we didn't agree with. When we all agreed on one thing and you wanted something else, you complained because we always go with the majority rule. Of course we do. That's how things work when you value the opinions of others. Do you want CC to be "ruled authoritatively"?

There are no "Yes men". I've publicly asked any staff who felt like that was the situation to come out and say it publicly. I have put myself completely at the mercy of the entire staff.

 

[joe7987]

It sounds like a majority of the issues this forum has stem from the moderators.

Will you please elaborate further? I won't argue any point you make (unless you specifically ask me questions), but I do want to hear your specific thoughts on this.

 

[RonJ]

As far as Anthony goes, I know why you have your suspicions and I know why you made the comments you did. Things have been very different in the past several months as compared to when you were a moderator. Everything has been very democratic.

If everything is democratic, then the admin (Anthony) can make NO DECISIONS without having the majority of the staff agree. If this is true, then you, other staff, and Anthony have equal power at CC, right? I am highly skeptical that this is true even now. I'm confident that Anthony has powers that you and others don't (hence his admin title) and also has access to Justin that you don't. My point is that Anthony was and is the site leader, so he should be held accountable for the things that went wrong while he was in charge. Otherwise, what is Anthony's incentive ever to become better?

Overall, I really believe that Anthony is a good admin.

This statement puzzles me. The many problems that you describe while Anthony has been in charge argue strongly against this opinion. For example...

I think your short time as moderator was during one of the worst times in CC moderator history. A certain staff member made things VERY difficult for everyone. The situation was handled, by Jay Jay directly. Everything has been much smoother since.

...Anthony actually not only liked this^ staff member but also supported and encouraged his disruptive behavior. Apparently, Jay Jay himself eventually had to take care of this problem because Anthony would/could not. Based on this incident and other negative things that have happened during Anthony's tenure as admin, it truly puzzles me how you could believe Anthony is a good admin. How bad must one be to be bad in your book Joey? Or perhaps you are using a rating scale like this:

1) Exceptional
2) Outstanding
3) Excellent
4) Very Good
5) Good <---
6) Bad

If so, I might agree with you.

You mentioned that there may be a group of mods who are afraid to speak up to me.

No, actually I meant there may be a group of mods who may be afraid to speak up to Anthony, based on his admin title, past reputation, and dominating interaction style in the mod forum.

 

[joe7987]

Actually, over the past several months, it has been a complete majority rule. Anthony has made no decisions directly. Anthony only supported Biz's actions for a short time. That wasn't lasting. I really think your short time as a mod was more misleading than insightful. Like I said, you were with us during a very bad time.

As far as Anthony having more powers then us - yes, this is true. He has the power to change site features, and user profile things that we can't do. He has these powers in order to help out Justin. He doesn't have the power to change site issues on a whim. Well, technically he does, but that's not the way it works. If he does over-rule a majority decision by the staff, it's because Justin has expressed wishes to the contrary of our decision. In the end, none of us would be here without Justin, so I think this is completely acceptable.

In regards to Anthony having extra access to Justin, this is completely false. I speak with Justin quite a bit through PMs. He almost always responds within half a day to me. I could also hop on AIM and send him a message at any time. I have gone directly to Justin for problems before, and Justin ALWAYS takes a look at them and does what needs to be done.

You asked how I think that Anthony could be a good admin. In general, he's very impartial (like I said, I think your short time as a staff member is misleading you). He doesn't choose sides based on who supports which argument. He opens his ears to all thoughts and opinions (unless Justin has clearly expressed that he wants it done a particular way). Aside from his recent hard times, he's active and dedicated to making this site better. Anthony and I don't always see eye to eye (actually.. we see eye to eye VERY infrequently), but I appreciate the way he handles our differences in opinion. I wouldn't spend all this time defending Anthony if I didn't think he was a good admin. I have little to gain from this except to enlighten the non-mods. I was VERY skeptical when Anthony first became admin... especially the fact that we were going to have an admin (aside from Justin) at all. My suspicions were allayed very quickly and Anthony has more than proven himself to be a fit admin.

When Anthony stops being a fit admin and shows a trend toward abuse or closed-mindedness, etc.., I'll do my best to have him removed. I've been on this forum a long time, and it's become more to me than just an internet forum. It's become a part of my day to day life. I'm constantly checking the moderator forum. Hell, I put this on my work resume now. They look at me funny at first, but then they let me explain and they understand what moderating entails. There's little I wouldn't do to ensure that ClubCivic reaches its greatest potential. This includes campaigning to remove somebody who is corrupt and hurting the site either directly or indirectly.

 

[JohnS.]

I haven't been on here as long as others but I think I know Anthony better than some based on his attitude and posts. I think he is pretty impartial like Joe said.

Ron, I think I understand where you're coming from... When things start to take a turn to the south, blame the leader. But like I said before, people come and go on CC. People grow older, get busy, and move on. And more and more people these days that come on here are people who care less about the site. All they want is their answers to move on.

I think the most the mods can do at this point is to add in more things like featured ride, photo contests, etc. to make it more interesting for current members. Also, it doesn't hurt to have more knowledgeable people on the mod staff. Hell, have you guys considered asking other people from other forums to be a mod on ClubCivic? Just to have more knowledgeable staff here...

I won't mention any names (not that it matters) but I don't understand why I wasn't allowed to post helpful links outside of ClubCivic. We all know Honda-Tech has a MUCH MUCH bigger database. The only way to help people is to get them their answer right? No offense but I'm not gonna sit here for an hour re-wording a thread that's 10,000 words on Honda-Tech. If they want a fast answer, the easiest way is to link to something that's already there.