P1359: 2000 Civic EX Coupe

paulgoh

New Member
5+ Year Member
Hi Everyone,

I own a 2000 Civic EX Coupe and I just got a code P1359: Crankshaft Position/TDC/Cylinder Position Sensor Connector Disconnection.

It seems that for the past few weeks, I have great difficulties starting my car sometimes and occasionally my car's acceleration wobbles slightly during high speed of about 75 miles/h.

I would like to solicit some opinions on how likely it is that my crankshaft position sensor is really bad or it is some other problems. This is because I have changed my timing belt before and I know that changing the crankshaft position sensor means that I have to perform the same amount of work as changing a timing belt because the sensor is right beside the crankshaft pulley.

Thank you!
 

RonJ

Banned
Carefully check whether the distributor connector is loose or its terminals or wires are damaged. If those are fine, then the ECU may be bad.
 


paulgoh

New Member
5+ Year Member
RonJ said:
Good point. That's always the first thing to do when a CEL code pops up. If the code repeats, then try what I suggested.
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Thanks everyone! So the code is probably a side effect of something wrong with the distributor huh? I have just cleared the code and will monitor it closely. What I'm afraid of is that one day my car wouldn't even start anymore, given that it is quite difficult to start it sometimes, i.e., it might take the starter 10 seconds or more to start the engine.
 

clover ej6

i r mekanik
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
RonJ said:
In my experience on forums, there are a surprising number of CEL codes that don't repeat for a variety of reasons.
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What I'm saying is that if i were to just clear a code and let the customer go and the mil came back on I'd get my ass chewed out. Unless it was a history code and not a hard code of course
 

RonJ

Banned
clover ej6 said:
What I'm saying is that if i were to just clear a code and let the customer go and the mil came back on I'd get my ass chewed out. Unless it was a history code and not a hard code of course
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I see your point from the professional mechanic's perspective, though the free advice offered to DIYers on a public forum is a whole different animal.
 

chameleon30038

Inquisitive
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
paulgoh said:
This is because I have changed my timing belt before and I know that changing the crankshaft position sensor means that I have to perform the same amount of work as changing a timing belt because the sensor is right beside the crankshaft pulley.
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Please do not just to this step...the CYP/TDC/CKP sensor is built into the distributor....the sensor down by the crankshaft pulley is the Crankshaft Speed Fluctuation Sensor NOT Crank Position.

Also if issue is not @ connector may be in the engine wiring harness. Vibrations / Bump could cause the intermittent loss in communication.
 

paulgoh

New Member
5+ Year Member
chameleon30038 said:
Please do not just to this step...the CYP/TDC/CKP sensor is built into the distributor....the sensor down by the crankshaft pulley is the Crankshaft Speed Fluctuation Sensor NOT Crank Position.

Also if issue is not @ connector may be in the engine wiring harness. Vibrations / Bump could cause the intermittent loss in communication.
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Thanks for this reminder!

This morning I had a hard time starting the car again. The starter is trying to crank the engine and then after about 20 seconds of cranking, I heard a distinct metal *clink* sound and the car started. Does this sound like interesting info?

btw...I don't know if I should just replace the distributor, as it cost close to $400 at hondaautomotiveparts.com. What I do not want to do is to throw parts at the problem and I am currently trying to resist the temptation.
 

RonJ

Banned
The CEL code indicates a problem in the circuits for all three distributor sensors. Did you check the distributor connector? If you reset the ECU and the same CEL code returned, then buy a digital multimeter and start checking the wires for the three distributor sensor. You would be looking for an intermittent loss of continuity or a short between each sensor and the ECU. Otherwise, you will replace parts at random, which can be expensive.
 

chameleon30038

Inquisitive
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
RonJ said:
The CEL code indicates a problem in the circuits for all three distributor sensors. Did you check the distributor connector? If you reset the ECU and the same CEL code returned, then buy a digital multimeter and start checking the wires for the three distributor sensor. You would be looking for an intermittent loss of continuity or a short between each sensor and the ECU. Otherwise, you will replace parts at random, which can be expensive.
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Exactly what RonJ said.
 

paulgoh

New Member
5+ Year Member
RonJ said:
The CEL code indicates a problem in the circuits for all three distributor sensors. Did you check the distributor connector? If you reset the ECU and the same CEL code returned, then buy a digital multimeter and start checking the wires for the three distributor sensor. You would be looking for an intermittent loss of continuity or a short between each sensor and the ECU. Otherwise, you will replace parts at random, which can be expensive.
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The P1359 issue returned again. I noticed that every time it happened, I had very great difficulties starting the car, i.e., it takes about 30 seconds of cranking. I checked the connection to the distributor and it is fine and tight. Also, it always happened in the morning when the temperature is quite cold, but I don't know if this has anything to do with it. Also, another thing that I might have forgotten to mention is that in recent weeks, there has been a significant drop in gas mileage, i.e., from 30 mpg to 25 mpg.

Because the issue happened with some predictability, i.e., in the morning when the temperature is low, I am less inclined to suspect a bad connection or a bad ECU but rather a bad distributor. btw, how hard is it to test the 3 sensors? I am currently more inclined to bet that the sensors are bad, which might explain the bad gas mileage. I guess if the sensors are intermittently bad, I would have to replace the entire distributor right? I would probably need to purchase a timing light for the replacement...
 

RonJ

Banned
paulgoh said:
The P1359 issue returned again. I noticed that every time it happened, I had very great difficulties starting the car, i.e., it takes about 30 seconds of cranking. I checked the connection to the distributor and it is fine and tight. Also, it always happened in the morning when the temperature is quite cold, but I don't know if this has anything to do with it. Also, another thing that I might have forgotten to mention is that in recent weeks, there has been a significant drop in gas mileage, i.e., from 30 mpg to 25 mpg.

Because the issue happened with some predictability, i.e., in the morning when the temperature is low, I am less inclined to suspect a bad connection or a bad ECU but rather a bad distributor. btw, how hard is it to test the 3 sensors? I am currently more inclined to bet that the sensors are bad, which might explain the bad gas mileage. I guess if the sensors are intermittently bad, I would have to replace the entire distributor right? I would probably need to purchase a timing light for the replacement...
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It would be extremely rare for all three distributor sensors to fail at the same time. Stay focused on the distributor connector and wires.

How exactly did you check the distributor connector? Did you unplug it and check for corrosion or water contamination? You might want to slap some dielectric grease inside. In addition, you can't always recognize a bad wire by looking at it. You need a multimeter to test the wires.
 

paulgoh

New Member
5+ Year Member
RonJ said:
It would be extremely rare for all three distributor sensors to fail at the same time. Stay focused on the distributor connector and wires.

How exactly did you check the distributor connector? Did you unplug it and check for corrosion or water contamination? You might want to slap some dielectric grease inside. In addition, you can't always recognize a bad wire by looking at it. You need a multimeter to test the wires.
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Hi RonJ, your point is well taken.

I was googling around and found this related and interesting thread:
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2042117

Specifically this reply:
--
You'll probably need a distributor subassembly (not a whole distributor!), or clean and crimp the CKP sensor connections inside the distributor assembly. It happens on Honda's all the time. You will probably see a decrease in performance and mileage. On the the ones I have fixed, the customer has only driven a few days with the code set, so I don't know exactly what will happen over time. It probably will not run.
--

The decrease in gas mileage and stuff like "... over time. It probably will not run." looked very promising. Now time to purchase a timing light and try this...or maybe I don't have to remove the distributor to do this? Perhaps use a marker to mark the position of the distributor before removing? =)
 

RonJ

Banned
I'd recommend that you purchase a multimeter before a timing light.

The link is for an Acura Integra, so I don't know whether the information also pertains to Civics, though it certainly may.

Here's the Civic service manual diagram for the code:

 

paulgoh

New Member
5+ Year Member
RonJ said:
I'd recommend that you purchase a multimeter before a timing light.

The link is for an Acura Integra, so I don't know whether the information also pertains to Civics, though it certainly may.

Here's the Civic service manual diagram for the code:

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Thanks RonJ, I do have a nice multimeter from Sears and I made use of it tonight.

After removing the air filter housing and distributor cap, and found a way to make the rotor line up to allow me to remove the screw, which finally allow me to get to the TDC/CKP/CYP sensor. Unfortunately, unlike the ignition coil or ignition control module, the TDC/CKP/CYP sensor has absolutely no exposed connectors to clean because the wires goes directly unexposed into the sensor.I believe that the sensor is also not available for sale as well because it is not designed to be removed. The sensor seems to be a very strong magnet as the screws are stuck to it after removal. Because of this discovery, I guess the service manual diagram makes a lot of sense to me now.

Therefore, since I know that I would have a hard time testing the connectivity between the ECU and the connector to the distributor, I resort to cleaning all the connectors on the distributor with alcohol and then lube them with dielectric grease. Another thing that I have found is that the resistance between terminal A (+) and B (-) of the ignition coil is out of specs, I wonder if this is significant as the service manual recommended replacing the ignition coil if the resistance is out of specs. The resistance that I read between terminal A and B is 1.3 ohms rather than the specs, which states 0.63 - 0.77 ohms for a tec distributor.

I noticed that the honda oem ignition coil cost about $100. Also, I found the same model of tec td-73u distributor that I am using that is totally new selling for as low as $93 on ebay, this makes me wonder if the one on ebay has some hidden issues: http://tinyurl.com/yeyel5e
 
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