Paid a shop $350 for Rear Main seal.. 2 weeks later..

[dth0ng69]

Okay so I have a 1998 cx with a d16y7. There was a oil leak coming from either the oil pan or the rear main seal.

I just did the oil pan gasket, and I paid a shop 350 to do the rear main Seal. So I'm not sure what they did, they seem like a shop that does good work..
What kind of trips me out is that it tooks 2 weeks for a leak to appear again, would a improperly installed seal take 2 weeks to start leaking?
and I don't know what factors can cause rear main seal to leak again, except worn main bearings, but someone told me you would hear a noise if your main bearings are worn.??

do you think the shop installed it wrong? should I explain to them how people do it on H-T (flip the old rear main seal inside out and use it to gently tap it in the new one with a hammer?) or will i sound dumb? should I tell them to use rtv on the outside edges of the rear main seal? since the service manual doesn't tell you to, I'm just really scared/frustrated that the rear main seal is going to leak again after 2 weeks.

I'm going back to the shop tommorow. any help/suggestions feedback tips would be great
thanks for reading.

 

[obracer12]

hmm i dunno.. are you over filling your oil? I've seen the RMS leak from that

 

[Dannyloski]

^ Good point. How many quarts of Oil do you put into your Y7?

Are you positive this New Leak is coming from the Rear Main Seal again? You replaced the Leaking Seal with a new one, but if any other seals are worn the leak would try to come out through those. Double check to make sure that it is indeed coming from the Rear Main Seal.

There is also the possibility that the Shop mounted the Seal wrong, but its a really low chance because its not rocket science ... Anyone can change out the RMS, its just time consuming.

Oh and tell the shop whatever you want, in the end you're paying (or paid in this case) for the work. Who cares if you sound "dumb" to them, its your car and your money.

 

[dth0ng69]

^ Good point. How many quarts of Oil do you put into your Y7?

Are you positive this New Leak is coming from the Rear Main Seal again? You replaced the Leaking Seal with a new one, but if any other seals are worn the leak would try to come out through those. Double check to make sure that it is indeed coming from the Rear Main Seal.

There is also the possibility that the Shop mounted the Seal wrong, but its a really low chance because its not rocket science ... Anyone can change out the RMS, its just time consuming.

Oh and tell the shop whatever you want, in the end you're paying (or paid in this case) for the work. Who cares if you sound "dumb" to them, its your car and your money.

Danny good point, it is my car and my money. I just hope that it is them installing it wrong, and not their seals that are causing the leak im almost sure they aren't using a Honda rear main seal..
I wonder how I should tell them install the seal, I mean it really isn't rocket science, but at the same time I heard its only 1/10" between correct and failure..

thanks alot for the feedback.

 

[Dannyloski]

No problem. You should ask them to put in an OEM Honda Seal instead.

You never answered the question though, how many Quarts of Oil do you use to fill up when you do an Oil Change?

 

[snm95ls]

No problem. You should ask them to put in an OEM Honda Seal instead.

You never answered the question though, how many Quarts of Oil do you use to fill up when you do an Oil Change?

Check to see if you have a PCV valve that is not functioning properly. I stuck PCV valve will not allow blow by to escape the crankcase and cause a pressure buildup that creates an oil leak.

Assuming the shop didn't pop the spring that holds tension on the lip seal out when they installed it, there is really little room for error unless the sealing surface on the crank is extremely worn.

 

[dth0ng69]

Check to see if you have a PCV valve that is not functioning properly. I stuck PCV valve will not allow blow by to escape the crankcase and cause a pressure buildup that creates an oil leak.

Assuming the shop didn't pop the spring that holds tension on the lip seal out when they installed it, there is really little room for error unless the sealing surface on the crank is extremely worn.

actually when i first got the car and replaced the PCV valve, the original valve was pretty clogged because it didn't rattle when I shook it, and is probably why the rear main leaked anyways. I'm using a fram pcv valve is that okay?
and I put 4 quarts of oil in my engine.

 

[JCCLARK]

Rear main seals start leaking because the main bearings (crankshaft) wear and the
crank wobbles. It's only a small fraction of an inch, but that's the problem.
If you don't replace your main bearings, then any new seal you install
won't last long. Believe me, I learned this the hard way after changing one
several times. Once I changed the main bearings, it finally lasted.
Any "good" mechanic knows this.

 

[dth0ng69]

Okay So I took my car to the shop and they are going to take it apart inspect it. I told him about how if 1/10" of the seal is off it can cause a leak. He said the mechanic is very very good, and can almost gurantee he didn't do it wrong.
He thinks its transmission fluid thats leaking, and said I might have to get a new transmission.

?? I don't get it, when I checked whats leaking it looks black (from oil mixing with the dust from the flywheel housing) and yellowish, kind of like oil, but I'm not too sure.
I hope hes not bullshitting me.

 

[RonJ]

Okay So I took my car to the shop and they are going to take it apart inspect it. I told him about how if 1/10" of the seal is off it can cause a leak. He said the mechanic is very very good, and can almost gurantee he didn't do it wrong.
He thinks its transmission fluid thats leaking, and said I might have to get a new transmission.

?? I don't get it, when I checked whats leaking it looks black (from oil mixing with the dust from the flywheel housing) and yellowish, kind of like oil, but I'm not too sure.
I hope hes not bullshitting me.

Any type of oil that flows over the dust and grit covered surfaces inside the clutch housing will turn black.

 

[Dannyloski]

Is the 98 CX Hatch that is causing this issue 5-Speed or Automatic?

If its Tranny Fluid that's leaking, you dont need a whole new transmission. Its probably the Input Shaft Seal. There is a difference in the way the Tranny Fluid smells and the way Engine Oil smells, hopefully that can help you determine which one it actually is. Give it a sniff and report back (I'm serious).

Another way to tell which is causing the leak (Tranny or Engine) is to check the level of each. Check the Tranny Fluid Level and jot it down, then check the Engine Oil Level and jot it down. Turn the car on or take for a trip, go to the mall, buy groceries, etc - as you would normally. Then check the Levels to see which has decreased. That should let you know if its the Rear Main Seal or the Input Shaft Seal.

Also, how bad is the leak? Is it a small leak or a good amount?

PS. You said you did the Oil Pan Gasket yourself, right? Did you use RTV around it as well? It might be your Oil Pan Gasket leaking.

 

[dth0ng69]

Is the 98 CX Hatch that is causing this issue 5-Speed or Automatic?

If its Tranny Fluid that's leaking, you dont need a whole new transmission. Its probably the Input Shaft Seal. There is a difference in the way the Tranny Fluid smells and the way Engine Oil smells, hopefully that can help you determine which one it actually is. Give it a sniff and report back (I'm serious).

Another way to tell which is causing the leak (Tranny or Engine) is to check the level of each. Check the Tranny Fluid Level and jot it down, then check the Engine Oil Level and jot it down. Turn the car on or take for a trip, go to the mall, buy groceries, etc - as you would normally. Then check the Levels to see which has decreased. That should let you know if its the Rear Main Seal or the Input Shaft Seal.

Also, how bad is the leak? Is it a small leak or a good amount?

PS. You said you did the Oil Pan Gasket yourself, right? Did you use RTV around it as well? It might be your Oil Pan Gasket leaking.

Hey danny thanks alot of providing lots of feedback, but lets see I have a 5-speed, and I asked him about the input shaft seal, he replied 5 speeds don't have a input shaft seal.
the leak really isn't bad, it would probably only drip a drop or two a day.
and I'm sure it isn;t the oil pan gasket.

as of right now I'm just waiting for their call..

 

[RonJ]

and I'm sure it isn;t the oil pan gasket.

I don't want to be harsh, but previously you were also confident that the oil leak WAS coming from the rear main seal. Are you now willing to reconsider that this may not have been correct (e.g., transmission fluid leak)? You will struggle to solve problem if you are closed minded.

 

[dth0ng69]

I mean he could be right it could be transmission oil, but why would replacing the rear main seal stop any leaks for 2 weeks?
I'm thinking my main bearings might be worn.. but I do not know how to tell..

 

[RonJ]

I mean he could be right it could be transmission oil, but why would replacing the rear main seal stop any leaks for 2 weeks?

Here's another theory. From the outset, there may have been more than one oil leak, one from the rear main and another more minor leak from a different location, such as the transmission, oil pan gasket, distributor, VTEC solenoid, etc. Now that the main seal is fixed, the second leak is just now becoming apparent to you. In addition, you replaced the oil pan gasket. If this job was not done correctly (as has been suggested to you several times), the oil pan gasket could also be leaking.

 

[snm95ls]

Rear main seals start leaking because the main bearings (crankshaft) wear and the
crank wobbles. It's only a small fraction of an inch, but that's the problem.
If you don't replace your main bearings, then any new seal you install
won't last long. Believe me, I learned this the hard way after changing one
several times. Once I changed the main bearings, it finally lasted.
Any "good" mechanic knows this.

I don't buy this, but okay.



5 speeds do in fact have an input shaft seal. If the input shaft seal is leaking excessively, then there likely another root issue like a worn out ISB (input shaft bearing) or a transmission that has been way overfilled.

Also, when replacing the oil pan gasket, there are little metal washers which prevent over torquing that are part of the gasket. It is very easy to overlook a few of them stuck to the block. This WILL cause an oil leak at the pan gasket.

 

[JCCLARK]

I mean he could be right it could be transmission oil, but why would replacing the rear main seal stop any leaks for 2 weeks?
I'm thinking my main bearings might be worn.. but I do not know how to tell..

If your bearings are worn, it WILL make the seal wear out and leak.
If that is your problem, it will keep getting worse.
Also. if that is your problem, your bearings are worn a lot,
most times it takes a couple of months to wear out the seal.
If yours are worn that much you should be able to hear them knock or rattle
a little when it's cold and you first start it up.

I'll bet that's your problem, it's the only explanation why it took a couple of weeks
to leak again.
Trust me. it's a common problem on older engines.
Talk to a person that builds engines and he'll know all about it.
Or check with a good machine shop and they'll tell you.
That's how I learned to fix mine, about 25 yrs ago!
And I]ve been building engines longer than that.

 

[RonJ]

If your bearings are worn, it WILL make the seal wear out and leak.
If that is your problem, it will keep getting worse.
Also. if that is your problem, your bearings are worn a lot,
most times it takes a couple of months to wear out the seal.
If yours are worn that much you should be able to hear them knock or rattle
a little when it's cold and you first start it up.

I'll bet that's your problem, it's the only explanation why it took a couple of weeks
to leak again.
Trust me. it's a common problem on older engines.
Talk to a person that builds engines and he'll know all about it.
Or check with a good machine shop and they'll tell you.
That's how I learned to fix mine, about 25 yrs ago!
And I]ve been building engines longer than that.

I am not questioning your extensive experience as a mechanic, but I think the engine would be rod knocking pretty loudly to cause the main bearing to leak in two weeks. This hasn't been mentioned so far, and I would also assume that a "good" mechanic replacing the main seal would have noticed bad rod knock and alerted the OP. In addition, we have no confirmation at this point that the main seal is actually leaking again.