Primary O2 Bad sensor or what??

civickid94

New Member
I have a 98 civic HX which has the 5 wire primary o2 sensor, and the 4 wire secondary. Cat is on the headers in the HX. I installed aftermarket headers, and so therefore a decat, and I re-installed the primary o2 into the 1st bung and installed the secondary, along with an angled adapter/flow reducer into the second bung... Now, the CEL was on as soon as I put the headers on, and at first I did not have the secondary o2 installed at all so I thought that was why. So i purchased the angle adapter, installed it, reset the ECU and figured it would be all good, however the CEL came back on. I assumed it was because the HX was just being picky about the secondary, but just earlier today I got curious, so I bridged the service adapter, and it gave me code 61, which is Primary o2...so my question is how on earth would my primary o2 be functioning incorrectly? I can't think of any way that aftermarket headers would ruin an o2 sensor, and also if that primary is bad, shouldn't that decrease gas mileage/ make my car run poorly? Because it runs fine and gas mileage is in the high 30s, as usual. Thanks
 

Jersey8

B20: Detroit Muscle!
Registered VIP
Registered OG
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
first of all, you only have one header

i think i may know what the issue is but i have a few questions:
are you running a cat?
is your secondary o2 located behind the cat?
when you said you installed your primary o2 into the "first bung," is this bung located on one of the runners, or it is located by the collector where all 4 runners meet?
 


civickid94

New Member
Right, I know there's only one header, I always say that haha.
Alright, so no, I am not running a cat., the header deletes the cat.
secondary o2 WAS behind cat, when there was one, now it is on the end of the dp, but its still after the primary o2.
the header is a 4-2-1 header, and its on one of the pipes that comes directly out of the exhaust ports, so no, it isn't near the collector.
thanks for you help
 

upnsmoke

New Member
I'm curious about this one myself. The only reason I could think of to have the O2 sensor in one of the runners is if it's unheated and needs to be close to the head. I always see heated ones in or behind the collector. That's all just my speculation though. I think Jersey8 may know what's actually going on here. One thing to bear in mind is to try not to run the engine with an unpowered O2 sensor in the exhaust. It is bad for the sensor, and can damage it in fairly quickly.
 


Jersey8

B20: Detroit Muscle!
Registered VIP
Registered OG
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
Right, I know there's only one header, I always say that haha.
Alright, so no, I am not running a cat., the header deletes the cat.
secondary o2 WAS behind cat, when there was one, now it is on the end of the dp, but its still after the primary o2.
the header is a 4-2-1 header, and its on one of the pipes that comes directly out of the exhaust ports, so no, it isn't near the collector.
thanks for you help
put the primary o2 at the collector. it is ideal for the primary to get an exhaust content reading of all of the ports, not just one.

as for the secondary o2, it seems like you are on the right track with the angled adapter. but since the primary will now be taking up this spot, you will have to weld in a new bung on your midpipe.
i understand that the aftermarket header deletes the cat. have you considered running an aftermarket cat? most cats already come with a bung installed. im not a tree hugger or anything but i do know that civics sounds like straight ASS with no cat.

are you sure the primary o2 is 5-wire? my 97 CX has 4-wire for both primary and secondary...
 

civickid94

New Member
Well the headers were sort of an experiment in the first place. So what I'll probably actually end up doing is just putting the stock headers, and cat back on, even though it's kind of a hassle. The thing about sound is that mine has headers, then stock piping, and then a cheapass muffler, but it has the resonator still so it actually sounds alright....around 3k rpms I will admit is is raspy, but oh well. And yeah i'm sure its a 5 wire. It's the HX model which is the only civic to my knowledge with a five wire. So do you think my sensor is being damaged right now? or do you think it's just not getting a very good reading, I really really don't want to has to purchase a $500 wideband o2 sensor.
 

civickid94

New Member
but then again you may not want to trust my opinion, because i think buddy club and 304 border sound absolutely amazing
 

Jersey8

B20: Detroit Muscle!
Registered VIP
Registered OG
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
Ours sounds pretty good without a cat. You sure you're not a tree hugger?
lol i used to run no cat on my d16. megan header and skunk2 mega power 2.5in. i was running a resonator in place of the cat, and the mega power has a resonator in the midpipe aside from the fart can muffler. and it still sounded like ass.
haven't really tried no cat on my b20
what setup are you running?
 

upnsmoke

New Member
Jersey, I was hoping you would get a laugh out of that. We have a bone stock D16Y8, the exhaust manifold and downpipe that came with the car, and a stock replacement cat back. The only component of the exhaust not stock or stock replacement is the test pipe... and a small hole in the midpipe near the muffler. I typically don't bother with resonators. Sometimes one can make a small improvement in exhaust note, but usually the difference is subtle IMO. Headers almost always sound better than a manifold to me. Long tubes have a very distinct sound that I personally love on most 4 cylinders, but even short tubes really make a nice sound most of the time. Whatever your setup though, the muffler can make all the difference in the exhaust note. I have been through enough mufflers in my time to know what I like and don't, and what sounds like what. I have a few used mufflers around that I usually test fit to an exhaust before I make a final choice. The wrong muffler can ruin the sound of an otherwise good exhaust system. It just so happens that the exhaust that came on our car has a decent sound as it sits, with no change other than the installation of a test pipe... and a small hole in the mid pipe, lol. For what it's worth, I like the sound of a Flowmaster 40, or better yet 44 on a small 4 cyl. When I redo the cat back on our car, which, by the looks of things will likely be soon, I will have difficulty deciding between a stock replacement exhaust and a custom setup with a flowmaster or the like.
Civickid, I mean no offense, but I do not particularly like the exhaust note of your car. It is not loud or offensive sounding, but to me it is not as pleasant as some others. It can't exactly place what I dislike about it, except that it sounds sort of flat. The biggest problem with trying to perfect exhaust sounds, I think, is that everyone has their own preferences. What one likes, another doesn't. It is no different than music. There are many different sounds for a reason. Each one is unique, and sounds good in its own way. Civickid, if you want a wideband there are some options much cheaper than $500. You probably don't need it for your application though. I don't mean to derail your thread. It sounds like you are on the right track with your exhaust. Someone else will hopefully chime in with some specifics on your primary O2, where to put it and why your CEL is on. I'm with Jersey on putting it in the collector. That is normally where you see them and it works well. It is better to take a collective measurement of all the cylinders at the collector than to base the fuel/air mix of the entire engine on a reading taken from one cylinder, as would be the case if the O2 was installed in a runner. Having a bung welded shouldn't cost you much either.
 

civickid94

New Member
I think i'm going to put it in the collector as you suggested...just out of curiousity, it would be interesting if you sent me a link to an exhaust clip that you do in fact, enjoy. and no offense taken, everyone is entitle to their own opinion!
 

upnsmoke

New Member
Civickid, I will track one down later today. I've tried to make a recording myself, but found that I lack the necessary equipment to make a decent audio recording.
 

MistahJuice

100% real juice
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
Trust me resonators make a big difference in the tone of the exhaust between not having one and having a good one. I have a 22in resonator which is almost the max you can fit under our cars and I don't get that high pitched farty sound that most get, even your videos are a fartier sounding then mine, of course I have a moderately built b18 with racing header and full 2.5in exhaust, but I'm also still running a cat out of an S2K.
 


Top