Speedometer Jumps to 20mph at Idle

[mrmarc]

Okay, I've just spent the past hour searching for old posts to this problem, and the closest to an answer I found was in a thread from back in 2007 (http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showpost.php?p=2105465&postcount=1). Instead of reviving what looks like an abandoned thread, I figured people would rather have me create a new one.

I just replaced my DX cluster with an EX one, but I noticed that when I start my car, the speedometer will shoot to around 20MPH even while idling. It eventually drops back down to 0MPH. If I drive with it at 20MPH, the needle stays put or bounces around just a little bit, but the trip/odometers don't turn. Again, it eventually starts working, and I think even resetting the trip meter several times "fixes" the problem for the moment. Unfortunately, the problem comes back the next time I start my car back up, of course.

The threads I found here and many other sites I found after doing a bit of Googling suggest I check and/or replace the VSS. I am a bit hesitant on this because when I put the old cluster in, the speedometer works just fine.

Now I know some of you may be about to suggest I just swap out the two speedometers, but I bough the new cluster because the odometer broke on my original cluster.

Another thread suggest putting oil on the needle because the lubricant may have dried/hardened over the years, but I am also reluctant on doing this because (1) I have to remove the needle to do it and (2) I only found one discussion suggesting this.

I guess what I am trying to ask for is if anyone else is familiar with this same problem (the problem is almost obviously in the new cluster itself) and what a solution would be, knowing that another cluster does work fine?

Could the problem be in the circuitry on the back of the whole cluster? Would I be able to use my DX cluster enclosure with the gauges from the EX cluster?

Also, if it comes down to it, I would be willing to replace the odometer from my old cluster with the one from the new one since that's the main reason I bought a new cluster in the first place. The tach is just a bonus I figured I'd get since I was replacing the cluster. The problem is, I can't find info on how to replace just the odometer and not the entire speedometer.

Thanks for any help.

 

[zb12691]

View attachment A00-081.pdf

check this. its a pdf from honda isis. couls be the problem

 

[mrmarc]

Thanks for the link, ZB.

I removed the board and it looks like all the connectors are okay. Unfortunately, it will have to wait until tomorrow evening before I can swap out the two clusters again.

In case this doesn't work, does anyone else have any suggestions, especially considering the symptom(s) described in the PDF are different (although slightly similar) from mine?

Thanks.

 

[zb12691]

yea, sorry that didnt work. its all i could find that honda posted about it. what year cluster is it out of?

 

[bsd4083]

I know this problem.........speedometer cable is under natural spring tension when manufactured.....

when you removed the speedometer needle you released the spring tension


this is a trial and error process... but i hit within one mph variance when compared to my GPS measured speed. IN TWO TRYS

HERE IS WHAT YOU DO:

REMOVE THE NEEDLE ONCE AGAIN...USE A SMALL SET OF CURVED NEEDLE NOSE PLIERS....

THE NEEDED TENSION IS ABOUT 1/3 OF A TURN CLOCKWISE ON THE SHAFT THE NEEDLE PLUGS INTO.........AND NO MORE(OR BAD THINGS HAPPEN)..................................THEN TEST DRIVE..

BECAUSE EVEN IF BOUNCE STOPS... NEEDLE MAY GIVE A FALSE READING

BEING EITHER TOO FAST OR SLOW READING ON THE GUAGE.....THAT IS THE TRIAL AND ERROR PART THEN PEPEAT PROCESS---ADJUST ACCORDING TO RESULTS FROM THE TEST DRIVE.... HOPE THIS HELPS

 

[mrmarc]

Interesting reply. It almost looks like a copy/paste or a caps-lock rip of many threads I read before posting my questions(s), which you apparently didn't read thoroughly. Thank you for the info, but this does not apply.

Had you read my post thoroughly, you would have realized that (1) my old speedometer works fine and (2) I made no mention of having removed the needles prior to the problem. I merely swapped out my DX cluster with an EX one. In fact, the speedo from the DX cluster (with broken odometer) works just as well in the EX cluster housing and if it were the result of an ill-calibrated speedometer, then the needle would move and give an inaccurate reading, which it wasn't doing at all...but thank you.

Anyhow, ZB, thanks to your post, I did eventually find information regarding the speedo head itself, which is what I began thinking was the root of the problem. This evening, I swapped the two speed heads, and wouldn't you know it, the problem was gone (note: this was the first time I removed the needles). Of course, I had to calibrate the speedometer. It's still around 3-5mph off compared to my GPS readings, but I'll continue calibrating it tomorrow or perhaps when I open it back up in the next few days to put in my LED's.

BSD: I am not sure what you mean about a 1/3 clockwise turn on the shaft because from what I've read, the best way to re-attach the needle is to (1) plug the cluster back in without the needle, (2) start the car, and (3) re-attach the needle while at idle (i.e. 0 MPH).

Can you clarify your explanation in perhaps better English?

Thanks.

 

[fendertwangen]

I am not a mechanic, but I had this problem and it seemed to start after the odometer started hanging up on me, than I would have to tweek it until I could get it to work again. Soon after this it started hanging up @20 MPH and when I would start to roll in first gear it would wobble a little, but stick on 20 MPH, than it would work off and on. Checked the connections, okay, pulled the sensor and it looked fine. I took the cluster out a few times try to lubricate, but broke my temp guage needle during one try, so I bought a new cluster and everything is fine. Thats all I know about that, but I was pretty sure it had something to do with the varible spped motor hanging up in the cluster.

 

[bsd4083]

Interesting reply. It almost looks like a copy/paste or a caps-lock rip of many threads I read before posting my questions(s), which you apparently didn't read thoroughly. Thank you for the info, but this does not apply.

After your wonderful responce above my first inclination is to let you solve your own issues. The caps were for easy readability...but who cares. I read your post thoroughly and did not need you to say anything about removing the needle.... the condition exhisted because the needle had been removed sometime by someone ..but a surface level thinker could not possibly grasp this.

Had you read my post thoroughly, you would have realized that (1) my old speedometer works fine and OF COURSE you old speedometer worked fine the tension had not been released by having the needle tampered with as on the EX cluster you installed

(2) I made no mention of having removed the needles prior to the problem. I merely swapped out my DX cluster with an EX one. In fact, the speedo from the DX cluster (with broken odometer) works just as well in the EX cluster housing and if it were the result of an ill-calibrated speedometer, then the needle would move and give an inaccurate reading, which it wasn't doing at all...but thank you. DUH read bold post again till you comprehend

So much for trying to help a guy for free before you critize dont assume you know...or do what ever GOOD LUCK...AND KNOW I DID NOT COPY/PASTE THIS

 

[mrmarc]

@BSD, Take some of your own advice. You assumed the needles had been removed prior to existence of the problem, when in fact they never were. Although I may have come off a bit callous in the initial lines in my first response to your post, I was still thankful for the information, as it may apply to someone else who may have the same or similar problem. Oh, and FYI, all-caps does not aid in readability whatsoever. In fact, it impedes on it. The bold text you used in your second post did help, though.

As for helping someone, you need to learn that when you are going to help someone with a situation that you may be familiar with, that doesn't always mean you know everything about the situation. You failed to clarify a few variables and thoroughly evaluate the situation. Again, take your own advice. You, too assumed something, in which you were completely wrong.

** I know the needles were never removed from the EX cluster before I did so myself to swap the speedo heads. **

Strangely enough, after resolving to replacing the speedo head and having had to remove the needles on both speedometers to do so, I did not experience the problem that you so graciously offered a possible solution to resolve. The only problem now is a slight miscalibration in the speed reading (no stuck needle, no bouncing around), which was expected.

Anyhow, if you wish to have the last word, by all means feel free. As for the problem I was experiencing, thanks to ZB's post that eventually lead me to discovering the root of the problem was in the speedo head, I have in fact resolved the issue myself.

 

[bsd4083]

I know the needles were never removed from the EX cluster before I did so myself to swap the speedo heads.
unless you know the life time history of that use part you cannot make that statement

by swaping out the speedo head you were forced to reestablish the relationship between the needle and the return spring pressure exerted......... by the spring from the speedo head..

.I would bet this swap of speedo heads was unnecessary...and if you had adjusted this relationship on the old speedo head you would have resolved your issue...........you can try that experment..

as to the question of replacing the needle...

when i do the process it is on a work bench under a bright light in a clean environment.
.I twist the shaft slightly clockwise to create the spring tension and then gently replace the needle on the head (with this process i can easily see and there is little chance of breaking the needle)

doing it the way you suggested means
the cluster is in a dark hole with out the face shield ...... which will need to be reinstalled...
and you are guessing the spring tension will be correct by virtue of a running engine causing the right relationship...

THEN you must use a tbumb and forefinge on a fragle part in a dark hole to stab the needle back on the speedo head. THIS IS a High Risk Process

 

[kaepos]

dude, learn to use the quote function... that's what it's there for. OP fixed his problem, no need to fuss over the fact that you didn't help him. At least he thanked you for the information.

 

[mrmarc]

unless you know the life time history of that use part you cannot make that statement

I do know its entire history, thus making the rest of your argument moot. I even put the "problem" head in my old speedo, and the problem was still there even after performing your "tension solution", albeit not as "professionally" as you described.

Anyhow, as kaepos pointed out, I did resolve the issue, so continuing this discussion the way it's going is now pointless.

Good day, sir.