yonaka suspension

[Decipher]

Progress is the one who will tell you not to lower their coilovers too much. If you want to go lower progress can make you a custom set with proper valving and rates, but it will cost more. You could probably get away with going a hair lower than I am. I'm on progress and it's hands down the best sub $800 set up.

And there is no such thing as "being dumped and riding awesome."

You are so high in euphoria you don't realize 9/10 people would think they're riding in a wooden roller coaster in your dumped civic.

My rates at 350/350 are not fun on bad roads. There is no way in HELL that any car with any rates with as little suspension travel as any dumped car will ride remotely comfortably. It is not physically possible.

Right on. I'd be happy with a drop similar to yours. I intend on getting the 350/250 rated springs. Still, would extended top hats help to increase travel of the shock when nearing the lower end of these coilovers?

Another couple of questions: 1) For reference, what size tires and wheels are pictured in those photographs? 2) With the drop shown, how much thread was left on the body (how much lower could you have gone)?

Thanks in advance

 

[civexspeedy]

Right. Yea the look of their website doesn't bode well for their products. Again I was just curious to see if any active members here had experience with them.

I've had my mind set on the progress kit for several weeks now... if not months, since I first read the sticky about suspension setups. Their website, in contrast, is very informative and clearly demonstrates a company that is proud of and confident in a quality product. And, being that they're made in the US is a plus.

Civexspeedy, I've noticed you keep mentioning not to lower the Progress coilovers too low. Where did you get this information or what has lead you to warn people not to adjust the height on these particular coilovers too low? I'm just asking because the only information I found provided by Progress about recommended height was in reference to the 350/250 rate set of series II and I quote "This calibration rides well on uneven road conditions if set up at a reasonable ride height around 1.0" to 1.5" less than OEM." What other adverse effects would be caused by setting the perches at their full drop adjustments? I have a feeling I'll be ending up at the very bottom of these if I get them... that's why I ask.

I got this info directly from Progress. This is in their description for their CS-2 kit:

This calibration rides well on uneven road conditions if set up at a reasonable ride height around 1.0" to 1.5" less than OEM.

That, and it is from personal experience working with coilover setups and playing with ride height and spring rates on my own cars. Granted I am running Koni/GC on my personal race car and the race car my friend owns, but the logic is still the same. The lower you go, the less travel your shocks will have. Extended top hats help, but only so much and applications are limited. The lower you go, the higher the spring rates you will need (stiffer springs). A softer spring rate will allow the suspension to compress more. Meaning you will use more travel on the shocks which brings you closer to bottoming out/hitting the bump stops. Whereas if you have the same ride height and bump up the spring rates higher, the suspension wont compress as much leaving you with a little more "wiggle room" and/or not hitting the bump stops.

The Progress CS-2's come with somewhat "soft" spring rates. Since the springs are a little on the softer side, you shouldn't slam the car. If you do, you will most likely be slamming the bump stops on hard bumps/dips or even RIDE on the bump stops which is not good and pretty much renders your suspension useless. I'm sure you've read many times that the CS-2's are a great coilover both for improving handling, giving a good drop and in ride comfort. All of which is due to the "ideal" spring rates. The higher you go in spring rate, the more harsh the ride will become.

Here is a crappy little Paint drawing I did real quick to try aid in explaining what happens when you lower a car far too much when it is not designed for it. It's a slight exaggeration and obviously by no means to scale lol.

The left (all that's with red) is what your suspension should look like, roughly, if it is set at either stock or at a reasonable ride height. Notice how on the third shock with the suspension under full compression, there is still room to go. In other words, not bottoming out.

On the right (all that's with blue) is what a "slammed" suspension would look like. Even at a static state, there's hardly enough room. When under full compression, you either run out of room which you would then be hitting the bump stop or actually sitting ON the bump stop. Which at that point your shocks are useless since your suspension is no longer serving its purpose.

Hope that helps.

i had function and forms, and you adjusted the forks on the bottom to lower it. that way you kept full shock travel. mine was dumped on them, and they rode awesome

The more I look at the F&F suspension, the more I question it. I'd much rather have shocks with external reservoirs which would allow for full motion of the shocks without any compromise in function, build or quality. It's one of the exceptions of getting away with being super slammed, but it's out of the price range of the kiddos who dump their Civics for attention.

Right on. I'd be happy with a drop similar to yours. I intend on getting the 350/250 rated springs. Still, would extended top hats help to increase travel of the shock when nearing the lower end of these coilovers?

Another couple of questions: 1) For reference, what size tires and wheels are pictured in those photographs? 2) With the drop shown, how much thread was left on the body (how much lower could you have gone)?

Thanks in advance

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone makes extended top hats that will work with Progress coilovers. I've never seen it or heard of it being done. Theoretically, yes it would help, but only just a little. Ground-Controls extended top hats only get you 24mm (not even 1 full inch) of extra travel. It helps, but it's not very significant. But, like I said, I don't think there are extended top hats for the Progress coilovers.

 

[nathan_carmona]

I've got a body who auto x's on k sports on loves em. So thats something I can recommend thats cheap and I've personally seen in use.

 

[civexspeedy]

I've got a body who auto x's on k sports on loves em. So thats something I can recommend thats cheap and I've personally seen in use.

Just because your buddy autox's and uses them doesn't mean they are good.

I've done a few national level events and have talked to national winners and have seen their setups. Hands down the best and most commonly used suspension products in autox, from civics to miatas, rsx-s, bmws, crx's, etc.. is the Koni and Ground Control combination. The absolute most common shock used are the Koni's. Why are these the ones chosen? Because they work, they work very well, they last long, they are very versatile both in being rebuilt and custom built, and they can be had at a very reasonable price.

I can tell you I have not seen one single even mildly competitive, let alone highly competitive, person run anything k-sport, blackworks, tein, function & form, blox, yonaka, d2, etc... and this is in my 6 years of competing. That's not to say any of these wont work, but I am saying if you want something to last, be able to finely tune, have proven customer support when you need it and have it function properly so you can be .001 seconds faster than the next guy, then NONE of those companies are the ones to choose.

Koni, Ground-Control, Progress, Function7, etc... all have done extensive testing and have proven themselves on the track over and over again. It is no different than why a car manufacturer tests their next production car out at Nurburgring before it is released. Do you need your personal car to set track records? No, that's not really the point. The point is you know it's been tested and it goes beyond what you need it to do. The thought should be the same with suspension products, or really anything else you do to your car. Do you need to know all the technical stuff involved in building your shocks? No. The company spent time doing that for you so you know when you install it, you will have little to worry about.

AND the price difference between some of the top notch companies and these sub-par to crap companies is so minimal!! Why NOT spend the extra buck...

 

[ek forever guy]

I really can't add anything to Civexspeedy. Well said on all points.

 

[dj_hallucn8]

Well I went with the Tokico whites with the 1.5 drop all around because I didn't want to slam it, I wouldn't mind going a bit lower in the front but I also have people ride with me so going too low would cause problems, coilovers seem to have extra bounce that I didn't want, I wanted a stiffer ride & that's what I got, so far loving them.

 

[nathan_carmona]

Just because your buddy autox's and uses them doesn't mean they are good.

I've done a few national level events and have talked to national winners and have seen their setups. Hands down the best and most commonly used suspension products in autox, from civics to miatas, rsx-s, bmws, crx's, etc.. is the Koni and Ground Control combination. The absolute most common shock used are the Koni's. Why are these the ones chosen? Because they work, they work very well, they last long, they are very versatile both in being rebuilt and custom built, and they can be had at a very reasonable price.

I can tell you I have not seen one single even mildly competitive, let alone highly competitive, person run anything k-sport, blackworks, tein, function & form, blox, yonaka, d2, etc... and this is in my 6 years of competing. That's not to say any of these wont work, but I am saying if you want something to last, be able to finely tune, have proven customer support when you need it and have it function properly so you can be .001 seconds faster than the next guy, then NONE of those companies are the ones to choose.

Koni, Ground-Control, Progress, Function7, etc... all have done extensive testing and have proven themselves on the track over and over again. It is no different than why a car manufacturer tests their next production car out at Nurburgring before it is released. Do you need your personal car to set track records? No, that's not really the point. The point is you know it's been tested and it goes beyond what you need it to do. The thought should be the same with suspension products, or really anything else you do to your car. Do you need to know all the technical stuff involved in building your shocks? No. The company spent time doing that for you so you know when you install it, you will have little to worry about.

AND the price difference between some of the top notch companies and these sub-par to crap companies is so minimal!! Why NOT spend the extra buck...

I understand you have a lot of experience with this but I dont think OP is going to be doing national events so why not save a buck? k sports, FF, yonaka will easily suffice for daily driving and out of those three only the FF wouldnt suffice for a slightly competitive track use. I'm not saying he should go buy ebay coils and bounce off the road, im just saying is it really worth and extra 200-300 for that ".001 seconds faster than the next guy"


edit: I did a little bit of research on pricing and the GC/koni combo isnt much more than k sports at MOST places. But qsrace.com is selling the k sports for less than everybody else out there which is why I was thinking it would be worth saving the money. My point still stands, but obviously you have to shop around.

 

[Decipher]

Thanks to everybody for answering my questions. Civexspeedy, I appreciate the time and thought you give to your responses. It's a really hard decision to make because there are options full across the price spectrum that people will tell you are better than the rest... even with the yonaka kits I've found guys swearing by them.

So how I understand it is: NO coilover is made to be slammed right? So even if I were expecting to one day go a little lower than the "reasonable ride height", there isn't an option of a product that's really built(out of the box,and in my price range) to be "slammed" because the physical limitations of shaft travel in conventional setups.

As a side note. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Progress kit. Even if I end up having to take it beyond it's recommended settings to get the stance I want, I think I'll be fine with the ride. I've already learned how to drive with a drop, and it's been on shitty eBay lowering springs and blown OE shocks. I don't think it can get much worse than that.

 

[ek forever guy]

I'd be hesitant to buy Ksport/D2 or anything else that is cheap. Why? Because they've had serious breaking issues. Even Function/Form has been known to ship leaking shocks with some frequency.

Ksport and D2 come out of the same factory:

 

[civexspeedy]

I understand you have a lot of experience with this but I dont think OP is going to be doing national events so why not save a buck? k sports, FF, yonaka will easily suffice for daily driving and out of those three only the FF wouldnt suffice for a slightly competitive track use. I'm not saying he should go buy ebay coils and bounce off the road, im just saying is it really worth and extra 200-300 for that ".001 seconds faster than the next guy"


edit: I did a little bit of research on pricing and the GC/koni combo isnt much more than k sports at MOST places. But qsrace.com is selling the k sports for less than everybody else out there which is why I was thinking it would be worth saving the money. My point still stands, but obviously you have to shop around.

I don't think you really understood my point.

My point is, do most people NEED a product that will exceed their expectations or their needs? Probably not. But the build quality and attention to detail is still there and it gives you peace of mind when you buy from a proven company.

Here's another analogy.

You bought a Civic because Honda and Civics have a pretty damn good reputation, their build quality is great, they are reasonably priced, they are economic and they get you from point A to point B with comfort. Well, you could have saved a lot more money if you settled for less and bought a Geo Metro right? Why spend the extra money on a Civic when you can get good gas mileage and get from point A to point B in a Geo Metro? Oh yeah, because Honda has done more testing, pays more attention to detail, has better build quality and a better reputation with its Civics.

I'm not saying anyone on here needs to go out and spend $5k on Motons. I'm not even saying anyone on here needs to spend a measly $700 on Koni/GC (although it's a great suspension setup for anything). ~$550 for Progress is beyond reasonable as far as price and how much bang out of your buck you get. The difference between the VERY often questionable Blox, D2, K-Sport, etc.. coilovers versus the highly reputable and proven Koni/GC is in some cases just a few bucks, literally. Does the OP need to track his car or need suspension that is track proven? Probably not. But for the very minute difference, you may as well purchase something that isn't so iffy.

You get what you pay for...

 

[ek forever guy]

You bought a Civic because Honda and Civics have a pretty damn good reputation, their build quality is great, they are reasonably priced, they are economic and they get you from point A to point B with comfort. Well, you could have saved a lot more money if you settled for less and bought a Geo Metro right? Why spend the extra money on a Civic when you can get good gas mileage and get from point A to point B in a Geo Metro? Oh yeah, because Honda has done more testing, pays more attention to detail, has better build quality and a better reputation with its Civics.

I'm not saying anyone on here needs to go out and spend $5k on Motons. I'm not even saying anyone on here needs to spend a measly $700 on Koni/GC (although it's a great suspension setup for anything). ~$550 for Progress is beyond reasonable as far as price and how much bang out of your buck you get. The difference between the VERY often questionable Blox, D2, K-Sport, etc.. coilovers versus the highly reputable and proven Koni/GC is in some cases just a few bucks, literally. Does the OP need to track his car or need suspension that is track proven? Probably not. But for the very minute difference, you may as well purchase something that isn't so iffy.

You get what you pay for...

Logic in it's purest form.

 

[Decipher]

Hey ek forever guy, did you see my question earlier in the thread? I was wondering what size tires and wheels are pictured in those photographs of your hatch with the Progress kit? And also, how much thread was left on the body of the coilovers when at that height, or how much lower could you have gone?

 

[ek forever guy]

If you want to you can totally slam the progress kit. There's enough thread to go lower than anyone would like.

My wheels are 16x7 +33 CE28N Volks.

Tires are 205/45/16 Yokohama S. Drives. Best tires I've ever owned.

Progress will not recommend slamming the car on those coilovers. However, if you're brave, replacement shocks are like $65 shipped and you could always experiment.