b18b at 81.5mm, 400whp

[slambed_civic]

slambed_civic:

thanks for posting pictures of blocks, i must have missed what mine looked like when i built my own GSR with cp 9:1 81.5mm pistons with stock sleeves. i think i even threw a head gasket (cometic) on my motor too. so yeah, i know what it looks like.

granted i dont have any experience with a block guard, so i am obligated to fish through the internets cesspool of misinformation and track down the correct stuff. ive seen time and time again where motors with block guards had cooling issues, and with that said i would go out on a limb to ASSUME that these problems could have been avoided without the use of a block guard.

your theory, in part, sounds good and makes some sense....however, its not correct (the whole headgasket issue you speak of and thankfully posted pictures of).

maybe mike@synapse will chime in with why THEY dont use block guards on 81.5mm stock sleeve builds

btw, that looks like a stock head gasket in your pic, heres a Cometic. looks so holey in should go to church every sunday.

see the grey areas of the "cometic" gasket you posted? thats steel. there are holes in the steel there. either way, thats not even a b series headgasket. its simply a stock photo. i dont like to argue and just to prove my theory correct ive take pictures of my cometic HG on a spare GSR block i have.
proof that its not stock (SS mid plate)

on the spare block:

on a trashed head showing the coolant channel in the head:

high shot of the block:

lined up with coolant channels on the head.

running this gasket, and a nuforms blockgaurd (which has less flow than the STR) has never provided cooling issues.

just by the pictures of the headgasket, that should prove my point further. look at the coolant holes on the gasket. makes no sense to put holes that small to restrict flow and create a cooling issue.... another proof to my theory as to why there would be no cooling issues.

again. you and mike are correct, they arent needed, but YOUR arguement about cooling is ficticious. people having cooling issues are doing something else wrong. while you admitingly dont have experience with blockgaurds i suggest you stop with the arguement. i have no problems with the way you do things. ive run plenty of stuff without blockgaurds as well. the block hold up just fine. my current DD is a 95 GSR. bone stock. i was running 10lbs on a t3/to4e and would trust it till the day the turbo died.

all in all, having a block gaurd can only help things with the flexing and contortion of the cylinder walls at the top where they move the most. they dont harm cooling by any means.

its simply a precautionary measure that i dont mind taking for the safety of my block. sorry for THAT opinion that myself and others might share.

so far the only supporting information that you have provided is that you shouldnt use a blockgaurd because it is not needed. while you are correct, again its just a precautionary measure.

thanks for playing, and have a good day

 

[jason_guy_yeah]

I'm getting some info form CI that going near 8k with the r/s 1.53 is not a good idea; even with forged rods and pistons.

 

[jason_guy_yeah]

bump?

 

[mike@synapse]

okay. 400hp is available with stock sleeves without a blockgaurd. there is no arguement on my part there. knowing that my stock FLOATING sleeves will not be moving under higher boost is just something that i like to know. its a measly 100 bucks for a blockgaurd.

so the benson sleeves in my block are just floating around.....i think not. extreme cylinder pressure aka detonation and heat cracks sleeves not the sleeves floating around.

a block gaurd might provide some stability. but you also have to consider that you now have different materials that expand at different rates pushing against each other. you have an interference fit block gaurd pushing against the cylinder walls that are trying to expand. you say it can only help, but there are definately potential disadvantages of running one.

 

[lsvtecEK4]

wow a whole bunch of engine builders in here lol

mike@synapse if there was a rep system on here id go ahead and pass you some, either way, e-high five. block guards are definately not the "best" way, but $2k for a sleeved block can be out of someones budget. and to say a benson, erl, darton, etc sleeved bottom end is inferior to a block guard makes me LMAO all day long, along with all the machine shops here in indy who build our engines and the engineers i deal with. take a step back and read what mike@synapse has said, reread it two or three times, then call up your local performance engine shop and listen to them agree and tell you the same thing.

 

[Almighty-Si]

a block gaurd might provide some stability. but you also have to consider that you now have different materials that expand at different rates pushing against each other. you have an interference fit block gaurd pushing against the cylinder walls that are trying to expand. you say it can only help, but there are definately potential disadvantages of running one.

^^^ Couldn't agree more.

Block gaurds are nothing but trouble. I have seen many instances of cars overheating becuase of them. I do have to say though some weren't properly installed and then some I would think were just bad design but they all do 1 think and thats what Mike said.

Think of it like this....if you took a glass ashtray and put a hose clamp tightened around it and heated it, would the hose clamp keep it from cracking? Obviously it won't, if anything it will cause it to crack sooner because you are not allowing it to expand.

Even if it wouldn't cause your cylinder walls to crack sooner, when you keep driving and heating it up and stopping and letting it cool down, you are shaping the cylinder walls. By the time you blow the rings into the oil pan the top of your cylinders will be 81 or 82mm and the bottom will be 85mm

If the motor is making your cylinder walls shake that bad, your problem is far worse than needing a block gaurd.

 

[AlexM]

Honda-Tech will tell you why not to use a blockguard.

 

[RKSskier]

What are some thoughts on block posting?? with the same material of course. Ready.... 1.... 2.... 3..... Debate!

 

[jason_guy_yeah]

hmmm....I think this method will make your cylinders out of round, IMO.

 

[slambed_civic]

so the benson sleeves in my block are just floating around.....i think not. extreme cylinder pressure aka detonation and heat cracks sleeves not the sleeves floating around.

a block gaurd might provide some stability. but you also have to consider that you now have different materials that expand at different rates pushing against each other. you have an interference fit block gaurd pushing against the cylinder walls that are trying to expand. you say it can only help, but there are definately potential disadvantages of running one.

first off, noone said anything about benson sleeves. its well known that they are solid/semisolid decks. therefore not allowing movement.

now onto the metals.... aluminum dissipate heat at a much faster rate, thats a well known fact. while the block gaurd may or may not expand and contract with the block (aluminum part) itself, it will be very close. a block gaurd that is installed incorrectly can be harmful, however when properly installed it should never bring "potentional" disadvantages.

when the sleeves move under extreme conditions without something holding them in place, you will have cylinder wall contact, bearing issues over time, and rod issues.

again, all of these problems would be under VERY extreme conditions.

im not saying you are wrong. its simply opinions. ive thouroughly supported most, if not all of my opinions with logical information. there are both pros and cons to a block gaurd. the cons are usually "potential" as you say.

to each his own. if i have a block gaurd, im gonna run it. if not then i dont run one. not big deal

 

[d16_turbo]

just get the block sleeved

 

[jason_guy_yeah]

Ok, I got another block(b18a) that is under 81.5mm and ordered a set of Aris 81.5mm pistons,(time to go to the machine shop) and I also got a free set of ARP head studs that have been used twice; I can reuse them right?

 

[mike@synapse]

first off, noone said anything about benson sleeves. its well known that they are solid/semisolid decks. therefore not allowing movement.

now onto the metals.... aluminum dissipate heat at a much faster rate, thats a well known fact. while the block gaurd may or may not expand and contract with the block (aluminum part) itself, it will be very close. a block gaurd that is installed incorrectly can be harmful, however when properly installed it should never bring "potentional" disadvantages.

when the sleeves move under extreme conditions without something holding them in place, you will have cylinder wall contact, bearing issues over time, and rod issues.

again, all of these problems would be under VERY extreme conditions.

im not saying you are wrong. its simply opinions. ive thouroughly supported most, if not all of my opinions with logical information. there are both pros and cons to a block gaurd. the cons are usually "potential" as you say.

to each his own. if i have a block gaurd, im gonna run it. if not then i dont run one. not big deal

benson sleeves are not a solid deck in any way they are an open deck design, same as oem honda. at the base of the benson sleeves they machine an area for the sleeve to press into, there is no reinforcement at the top of the sleeve at all. the oem sleeves are a one piece cast for all cylinders, where as the benson sleeves are individual sleeves for each cylinder. what it all comes down to is there is no issue with open deck honda sleeves moving under high rpm or stress. extreme cylinder pressure aka detonation causes sleeves failures, not sleeve movement.

also im not one to argue about cooling issues with block gaurds, but most the arguments people make is that it restricts flow of coolant. i dont necessarily agree with that but one this it does do it not allow coolant to reach the very top of the cylinders walls which get the hottest. as you can see in the picture linked earlier in the thread the block gaurd wraps around the entire cylinder, coolant can definately go through the block gaurd but cannot touch much of the cylinder wall in that area. it may not be a an issue but definately not ideal.

 

[stealthy]

Ok, I got another block(b18a) that is under 81.5mm and ordered a set of Aris 81.5mm pistons,(time to go to the machine shop) and I also got a free set of ARP head studs that have been used twice; I can reuse them right?

yeah you can reuse arp studs



mike, perfect explanation about the cooling issues with the block guard

 

[slambed_civic]

very good information. thats actually one of my old blocks. that block gaurd was actually pushed down into the cylinder 1/4 of an inch for the cooling reason at the top of the cylinder walls.

i think that all of our arguements here should be taken into consideration and dismissed.