And not only would that help the illegal immigration problem, but we would also not be paying to influence that other country. Therefore, not only helping our economy by not having to fund a war, but also supplying more jobs for Americans.
Illegals hurting more of our own people..
- Thread starter oc_civic
- Start date
the punishment isnt enough, its obvious that its not scaring them. I say if you are caught border jumping, or being in the states illegally, death is the punishment.
oh f**king god... white people, black people, asian people.... all do this s**t all the time. Hit and runs aren't limited to only illegal aliens. Get rid of all the illegal aliens in the country and you'll still have the same s**t happening.
I don't know about you guys but I'm not worried about getting hit by an illegal alien!don't get me wrong tho... I'm not a fan of illegal aliens, I'm just tired of seeing you guys b***h about illegal when white trashy americans are probably hurting us more than you want to admit. There's whole communities of apartments over here filled with nothing but white people abusing the system. they have their rent paid... BY ME!... their food paid... BY ME!.... all they have to worry about is if they have enough money to buy liquor and oxycodins for the day.... and I'm the f**king one buying it for them!
Lmao!! ^
This is actually not that bad of an idea. Not only that, but we send them back. Unfortunately, this would NEVER happen. The other ideas are at least plausible.
First, yes, they are not counted by the census. That does not mean, however, that we don't have reasonably accurate estimates. That's the beauty of statistics; you don't need to do a hard count to have a good idea.
Second, after some more research, I retract my earlier statement of most illegal immigrants ending up here by overstaying their visas. The best estimates put it around 45%.
Here is a statistical study on the number of illegal immigrants in the country: http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf
This does, however, mean that if you completely secured every border of the United States, then you would have only stopped 55% of illegal immigrants. And, this is only based on speculation, but it seems reasonable that if the borders were tighter, more would overstay visas rather than trying to cross the border illegally.
Well, thanks for ignoring my argument. I did not say let anyone and everyone into the country with no conditions, which is what you seem to think I said. Honestly, we can't have a civil debate if we don't listen to each other.
What I am actually saying is that these illegals are already here, already using our public services without paying. And they're not going to pay unless we make them citizens, or, alternatively, give them a social security card immediately, and then help them through the naturalization process.
That means our only two options to make them stop using our services without paying is to kick them out or do what I just said above. Kicking them out seems ineffective, as it's very difficult (not to mention expensive) to find them and remove them, not to mention that they could just come back again.
lastly.. you simply can not imagine the volume of people crossing the mexican border.. and these people are NOT exclusively south american... there is evidence to indicate that middle eastern militants are ALSO crossing.. people who want YOU dead simply for being American.. yeah.. lets just let them ALL in.. GREAT IDEA
There is little evidence that shows that terrorists are crossing the southern border. Yes, there is a small number of middle easterners (in the hundreds) that come through that border, but it's not significant compared to the other methods of entry. Many more terrorists can get through our airports and through the Canadian border. You may want to read this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/03/AR2006050302199.html
Are you being serious right now? I agree, death would be a much better deterrent, but is it worth it? You're suggesting that you kill someone just for what is basically a grand form of trespassing?
stopping more than HALF of the illegal immigrants entering the country would be a HUGE accomplishment.. and would GREATLY reduce the problem these people bring.. FURTHER it would greatly reduce the threat of terrorists gaining entry to the country, because they would be left to fly in, and have to pass through security, thus increasing the chance of catching them..
you want to reward illegal activity just because its easier.. that to me is NOT the proper way to deal with s**t.. court.. police.. lawyers.. etc.. are ALL expensive, and produce VERY time consuming tasks... enforcing ANY law takes TIME AND MONEY.. further.. rewarding these scumbags who slip across the border is a GROSS insult to those who have taken the time and effort to do it properly.. you say sending them back is ineffective and expensive.. in that regard we agree... a typical piece of .308 ammunition costs a little under a dollar.. a nice thick long length of rope and a sturdy oak tree would cost under $50.. what we need to do is get SERIOUS about these assholes invading our country and address it properly.. with REAL solutions that ELIMINATE the problem..
Do you realize how many people it took to actually take control of the planes and fly them into buildings on Sept. 11th.. do you realize that terrorist have NO intention of crossing the border in mass droves.. terrorist operate in isolated cells.. planning what they intend to do... if 20 terrorist crossed the US Mexican border that is 20 too many.. to argue that the amount of potential terrorist crossing the border is LOW, you have obviously not been keeping up with the media.. it took about 20 guys to commit the acts on sept 11th.. 20.. not a thousand.. not a million.. not a hundred.. not even fifty... to find ONE item that indicates these people may be crossing into our nation there should be enough to put the entire nation on high alert..because thats all it takes... ONE..
and yeah.. I am %100 serious... death with FAIR warning.. you know why? they have been giving EVERY chance in the world to do it right.. but no.. they sneak into our country.. rape our resources.. hurt our people.. f**k THEM.. they are f**king scumbag pieces of s**t.. and that is EXACTLY what they deserve..
guess what happens if someone breaks into my home.. I SHOOT THEM.. why? because when someone breaks into somewhere be it a home.. office.. or country.. they are doing so because they intend harm.. that harm can come in many ways.. i will error on the side of caution and eliminate that threat before i have the unfortunate opportunity to figure out what form of harm that is..
sick-vic
New Member
f**k you all BUNCH OF KKK'Z MOTHERFUCKERS
I WISH TO SEE U f**kERS WORKING UR ASS OFF ON DA FIELDS WENZ HELLA HOT, MAN f**k YOU ALL, NOT KUZ ONE OF THEM DO STUPID s**t MEANS ALL R DA SAME, SO f**k YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!
N THIZ PAGE ITS ABOUT CIVIC N-E FKN WAYS
f**k U ALL FKN KKK'Z BITCK ASS MAFUCKERZ
I WISH TO SEE U f**kERS WORKING UR ASS OFF ON DA FIELDS WENZ HELLA HOT, MAN f**k YOU ALL, NOT KUZ ONE OF THEM DO STUPID s**t MEANS ALL R DA SAME, SO f**k YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!
N THIZ PAGE ITS ABOUT CIVIC N-E FKN WAYS
f**k U ALL FKN KKK'Z BITCK ASS MAFUCKERZ
I agree with OC. I dont care if its one one potential terrorist who sneaks into the country, thats one too many. And to know that we have a president who not only does nothing to stop these illegal immigrants, but could potentially be allowing several hundred terrorists into this country just makes me sick to my stomach.
And its REALLY not acceptable to say "oh its okay, its only a couple hundred". The number of terrorists doesnt matter, the resources they have available is what matters. 100 terrorists with millions of dollars, and access to illegal weapons is MUCH more dangerous than 1,000 terrorists with 3 knives and little-to-no connections and knowledge.
And its REALLY not acceptable to say "oh its okay, its only a couple hundred". The number of terrorists doesnt matter, the resources they have available is what matters. 100 terrorists with millions of dollars, and access to illegal weapons is MUCH more dangerous than 1,000 terrorists with 3 knives and little-to-no connections and knowledge.
Part of what you say is right man, but what if these illegal immigrants come to work, they dont come to ask the government for help... They only want a better life for their family you know... Maybe if you were in there shoes you would understand, i was born in cali but i can relate cause my dad was an illegal immigrant, and i know he went through hell just to make it to the U.S.A...
f**k ME? don't like what i say.. go sit in the corner and cry over it... i know let me guess.. you are an illegal or have someone you care about is an illegal and you have some goofy personal bias towards the issue.. I wont assume that you are so f**king stupid that you actually think that having a free open unchecked border is a good thing.. so with that said.. what exactly do you have a problem with... we just want all these f**king illegals to go back where they came from... go ahead.. play the race card.. its what weak minded people do.. oh and before i forget.. f**k you to... i hope in your lifetime you see a nation free of the cancer that is depriving out nation of precious few resources..
no personal offense or anything.. but your father has done something i find morally wrong... i can not apologize for the way i feel... you can WANT all you want.. but society has laws and boundaries.. you say oh my dad struggled so he had to illegally enter the country.. well then the next guy says i was hungry and poor so i stole some food... the next guy robs someone to get money to turn his electric back on during the freezing winter... there is NO justice when you break the law.. when you jump in front of OTHERS who are LEGALLY trying to come here.. you have guys struggling to LEGALLY immigrate into the country and they have to compete for work with all these people simply jumping the border.. i understand your personal feelings in the issue.. but as i said.. i can not help how i feel.. and i feel its wrong..
I understand what you are saying. They cant help it that they are born in another country. However, the problem with them just coming here and working is this.....
1. When they work, they take jobs away from Americans. I dont care how you look at it. If someone wants to make the argument that they do jobs Americans wouldnt do, that may be true. However, if Americans wouldnt do the job, and there were no illegal immigrants to do it, the job must be completed right? Machines come in. There are people who need to research and develop the machines, people needed to operate the machines, and people needed to repair these machines. Those are all jobs that Americans WOULD do, and those are all jobs that WOULD be created if there werent illegal immigrants here.
2. When these illegal immigrants work here, they dont pay taxes, yet they take our resources and government funding. That affects Americans in two ways. One way is that since these illegal immigrants are taking up resources and government funding, there is less for LEGAL Americans who DO deserve to dip into these resources and that funding. The second way it affects Americans is since there are more people taking resources and funding, the money has to come from somewhere. Know where its coming from? My pocket, and every other LEGAL Americans pocket.
3. They are taking the money they earn and they are sending almost all of it back to Mexico!! That means that they arent even putting any money back into our economy to help lift it back up from the garbage dump it has become.
Idk man, life is tough i guess...
Yea its tough, nobody here is denying that. But just because ONE persons life is tough, doesnt mean that WE need to pay for it. Their are plenty of volunteer donations one can make for such issues, it should not be FORCED on us like it has been.
Well said. Its people like that kid why we are in this f**king s**t hole of a mess.....
Yes, I agree that stopping more than half of illegal immigrants would be a good thing. I don't like illegal immigrants being here not paying taxes either. I'm not sure if I got that across well enough. What I'm trying to convince you of is the method of reducing the number of illegal immigrants.
That being said, due to the cost of securing the border versus its effectiveness, I don't think it's worth it. If we had a surplus, or even a small debt, I'd say, sure, go for it. But the gross national debt is now over $12 trillion, and rapidly rising. With a debt like that, it's difficult for me to support costly programs unless I am convinced they are completely necessary and there is no better alternative.
Not to mention, we keep mentioning the southern border. The number of terrorists entering the northern border is far greater. Even if we reduced the number coming through the southern border, we'd still have the much larger amounts coming through the airports and through the northern border. If you suggest to heavily secure the northern border, well, that would be even more expensive, and probably wouldn't help our relations with Canada.
I did not say I wanted to reward illegal activity. You once again bend my words and skim over my argument. What I believe to be best would be to make the naturalization process easier for everyone. That way the illegal immigrants that are here can become citizens.
Unless you refer to my idea to give social security cards to illegal immigrants and help them through the naturalization process. Well, this would allow them to pay taxes, and we would not be rewarding them, but just guiding them through the same process everyone else has to do.
I don't see where you're getting these huge legal costs from. Could you elaborate on that? Yes, there is a price on the naturalization process, but it would be offset by helping them immediately pay taxes.
Yes, I do realize that it takes only small amounts of terrorists to do large things. But that does not mean that large numbers of terrorists will do lots of large things.
With a few hundred (at the maximum) terrorists coming through the southern border, and many more coming in via the other passageways, we have not had an incident as grim as September, 11th. I'm not saying that something similar or something worse can not happen again, I'm just saying it hasn't. What I am trying to convey is that every 20 terrorists does not equal a September, 11th.
Yes, any one terrorist can commit great acts of terror. That does not mean they all do.
Also, how are you going to stop one terrorist from entering the country? No matter how much you secure the borders, the airports, the ports, and the coastlines, terrorists will always get in. That is not to say that we shouldn't try to prevent terrorists from entering the country, because we should.
What I am trying to say is that your argument that there are a relatively small number of terrorists entering the southern border, so we should heavily secure the southern border, is moot. Many more enter from the other passageways, so we should focus more on securing those if you're trying to stop terrorists.
They have not had fair warning that we would kill them. Nobody has told them that they would be killed for entering the country illegally.
Setting aside that I think death is a far too radical punishment, especially without a trial, it is in fact unconstitutional to suddenly lay the death punishment on them. That is called a ex post facto law, and is unconstitutional for the federal government by Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution and for the states by Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution. Even if you suggest to amend the Constitution to allow this, there is no way you could ever garner enough support to change such a fundamental part of our legal system.
Now that leaves all the future illegal immigrants. To make a law which allowed one to shoot an illegal immigrant without a trial would also be unconstitutional. Every person, before he or she is convicted of a crime, must have a trial, even if he or she is not a citizen. Also, they may not be tried in military tribunals as long as civilian courts are available. Check ex parte Milligan on that one.
Killing them on the spot would also be in violation of the Declaration of Non-Nationals (1985). You may want to read the document. You can find it here. In case you are too lazy or busy, here is the most relevant excerpt. It is from Article 5, Section 1.
"1. Aliens shall enjoy, in accordance with domestic law and subject to the relevant international obligation of the State in which they are present, in particular the following rights:
(a) The right to life and security of person; no alien shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention; no alien shall be deprived of his or her liberty except on such grounds and in accordance with such procedures as are established by law;"
The point that I am trying to make is that it doesn't matter if you think killing all the illegal immigrants is best for the country. It is so incredibly illegal. Even if you think that's what we should do, it does not matter unless we can do it. And so, your argument is invalid.
Let's save some time here. Even if you amend your argument to say that we should put them all through trials (with the death sentence being the result), both the ones that are here and the ones coming in, it still doesn't work. As I said before, you can't do that to the ones that are already here. As for the ones coming in, it seems very likely that any law saying that their punishment must be the death sentence would be ruled unconstitutional. First of all, the death penalty has been left for the states to decide upon. Forcing them all to adopt the death penalty just doesn't work. Secondly, even if that went through, it is likely that a majority of the Supreme Court would deem that cruel and unusual punishment. Even if somehow this became a legal reality, that would be a huge, time consuming, and expensive legal burden to add to the court system.
I know you weren't taking to me, but I just want to say I agree with these points. I too would like to decrease the number of illegal immigrants in this country, and recognize the damage that they do. Just wanted to make that clear.