read this its about sleeving http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=32538
Which pistons and rods???
- Thread starter paagle
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Hondatec2042: I wanna run as much boost as possible without blowing up my engine. I was thinking of upto 20psi but if you say more is possible then I will certainly look into it. 9.1:1 was the advertised compression but when i checked with Ross Pistons, they claim it is 9.4....so will find out when i get them and have them put in.
Soldiaboy, thanks for the link but I have read up on that one already as I have been searching high and low to get more info on this. From what I gather, if i run up to 300whp then i should not need to sleeve my block but any higher than that then it would be required. I am going to see my mechanic tomorrow so I will ask him how much extra it will cost me to get it done, so that I dont have to keep getting my head opened up. This will hopefully bulletporoof it so that I can start with turbo and nos.
I wish I had the money to do this too dude....thank you Mr Visa......for letting me whoop my plastic fantastic!!
Soldiaboy, thanks for the link but I have read up on that one already as I have been searching high and low to get more info on this. From what I gather, if i run up to 300whp then i should not need to sleeve my block but any higher than that then it would be required. I am going to see my mechanic tomorrow so I will ask him how much extra it will cost me to get it done, so that I dont have to keep getting my head opened up. This will hopefully bulletporoof it so that I can start with turbo and nos.
I wish I had the money to do this too dude....thank you Mr Visa......for letting me whoop my plastic fantastic!!
paagle said:
9.4:1 sounds better. You don't wanna have your CR too low, otherwise there will be no power in your motor until the turbo spools, thus making you lose even more low-end torque (and Hondas are low on torque to begin with) Anyway, don't hold me to that about what my boys do, b/c I said they do it, I didn't say how safe it was. I'm more of an all-motor guy, so if you wanna find the real limits of what a motor could handle, speak to a good mechanic. As for sleeving your motor, you're looking at about 800 bucks or more, but you don't really need it unless you plan on going way over 25 psi... If you just have forged pistons and rods you can easily run around 20 without any problems... but you also need to look into a better clutch, and axles, and maybe beefing up your trans... nothing sucks more than having a SICK ass motor, but the trans blows and you can't drive it anyway.... Look into QUAIFE differentials.... they're expensive, but WELL worth the money. Oh any also, what are you gonna use to tune it?
Ravage70 said:
I agree... If you're already planning on building the motor for boost, then stick with the b16. While an LS motor can hold more boost when it's stock, a built b16 is way better cuz a combo of vtec and boost is REALLY nice.
soldiaboy said:
if it has the right combo of cams, fuel delivery, and great tuning, the b16 becomes a B16EAST!!
It's all a matter of preference which one you like better,but look at it this way... all the big race teams who run turbo hondas run turbo vtecs. But also it doesn't matter how good the setup is.... if you don't have a tuner the car ain't worth s**t. Tuning is REALLY important.
I have also been doin a lot of research and it does seem the vtec and turbo do work well together and are a better combination. I am still waiting on parts to be delivered so haven't had a chance to find out if i should get the block sleeved. From what HOndatech2042 is saying, i may not need to get the block sleeved unless i wanna run more than 25psi of boost. To start off with i was thinking in the region of 10-15psi and then start winding it up slowly as and when i have the money to upgrade the other compnents i.e. intercooler, lsd, throttlebody, NOS etc etc. What size of turbo do you guys think i should go for with this setup? to start off with i want approximately 300-350whp and then slowly take it up higher. After talking to you guys i have decided to take it up to 450-500whp if not higher seeing as it is possible. I am looking into the Quaife LSD but i think i will invest in that as i get closer to these figures as the cost is beginning ot get quite a bit now. I have been looking at T3/T4 turbos but not sure what to go for as many of the seem to have different size inlets and outlets as well as A/R which i havent got a clue what they are. I will have to start looking into what each of these things does in order to find the one with maximum power gains. I still want to keep this as my daily ride so not to go too over the top....(if 500whp isnt too over the top already!! )
paagle said:
From what i heard about the T3/t4 turbo, it's a good turbo, and creates a lot of boost. HOWEVER, I have heard a case or two where people said the housing coulc crack under pressure, but you will have to research that on your own, just don't listen to anything that "SKILLED_DRIVER" has to say...
ok i have decided that i will not really take it too much past 350whp. This is to keep it reliable as my daily drive. I may look at increasing power later but for now i would prefer a car that has pretty good all round power and torque. My mechanic is conviced that the Stage 3 cams will be fine with turbo but i need to know what my best turbo option would be. I have been looking at different turbos but i am a little confused as to what to go for. From the information i have found, the t3/t4 may be a good option but apparently the GT25 would be better. However it seems the GT25 is good for low end power only. I am really confused as to what turbo i need to purchase to go with this kit so any help would be appreciated. Like i say i am looking for not much more than 350whp to keep things reliable but as you may know i have upgraded my internals to take a hell of a lot of boost. I have also just been told that my the pistons i have ordered will only have 8.5:1 compression. So obviously i need to balance this out in terms of boost.
paagle said:
What brand cams did he suggest? Cuz honestly, stock GSR cams are GREAT for turbo, as well as the Skunk 2 turbo cams.... don't trust regrinds.... as for turbos, i can't tell you much, but I WILL tell you that 8.5:1 compression is too low for a street car.... even if you do run high boost- the turbo lag will be ridiculous... If you can still change your order I reccomend you get something a little higher, but that's just my
Hondatech2042: I have already purchased Skunk 2 Stage 3 cams as he recommended i get the wildest cams i can afford. The pistons are already on thier way over too but i am a little confused about them. According to Ross Racing, the compression should be 9.4:1 and thats why i ordered them but according to the guy who was selling them, they are only 8.5:1 on a B16a. I am convinced he is wrong which is why i still told him to send them. The product code is 99807 so you can have a search for yourself and see as i know 8.5:1 will be too damn low. Even if they are, my mechanic seems not too worried as the block will be machined plenty i.e. port polish, skimming, rebored to 81.5mm, balanced, sleeved etc etc and hence they will raise or lower the compression to get the maximum power out of the block.
paagle said:
Hmmmm. Sounds like an interesting setup.... I've heard of ppl using the JDM CTR cams for turbo, but I've never seen someone use Stage 3 all motor cams. Let me know how it runs. i wasn't aware that stage 3 cams ran good on a daily driver, but then again, i haven't done it in person, so i wouldn't know..... from what you're describing, it sounds like you're gonna have a nice setup, so keep us posted about what's happening during the process, OH and make SURE that you get the engine put together by a Good, trusted mechanic....
Well i am all new to this, so i hope the advice i have got and decisions i have made based on it have been in my favour. This is a learning game for me but luckily it will be done by professionals who do this all the time. i have been told that it will basically be a race spec engine when it is complete. I really hope it doesnt blow up on me or end up not working as a daily drive cos this will have cost me $5000 in parts alone with another $2000 in labour when it is finised...i just bought my t3/t4 turbo kit today and looking for intercooler now....Quaife LSD will be coming too...just need to order it...looks like i may end up with a fair bit more then my initial 300hp target!!
Yea, with that setup you will be getting more than 300 hp most likely. good luck
Hey paagle a few ??'s. What exactly did your mechanic tell you to convince you that the stage 3 cam would be best for your turbo setup? What about the head porting, what was his word on that? Also, how will he be managing the fuel with your turbo B16? If you're worried about recieving the wrong pistons, you can compute your c/r. I did a write up a while back, I can link you to there if you'd like. That is provided the pistons are already in the block. But you can also easily get a rough estimate of the c/r and if you wanted to raise your c/r you can always mill the head to raise the c/r. If you get the GT25 (Garrett) it will spool up faster being a smaller turbo and might not provide the boost you desire. If you want one of Garrett's GT-series turbo's, look for something upwards of a GT28R to satisfy your hunger for power. The T3/t4 is the industry standard and there are a lot of suppliers of different variations of the T3/t4. It would not be a bad choice either.
I ask these ??'s 'cause for your application, your engine builder is demanding conponents that goes against the virtue of "correct" so I'd like to know how he worded you into a Skunk2 Stage 3 cam. Let us in on this; not to criticize or anything but it could mean the difference between a great running beast or just a beast.
Sorry I didn't read this post earlier~ Forged pistons commonly come in two different types--4032 hi-silicon pistons and 2618 lo-silicon pistons. The only difference between the two is (you guessed it) the percentage of silicon in the material. Hi-silicon pistons expand less under high heat and therefore you can run closer tolerances with them. They are desireable for street driven vehicles because of that--they don't beat up your cylinder walls as much when cold. Lower clearances mean less piston flapping around. Also because of that, they are more brittle. They won't take as much beating as a 2618 can. If you're shooting for more than 500 rwhp on a 4 banger, than 2618 is the way to go. Anything less I would recommend 4032 hi-si for long term reliability. JE are lo-si. SRP are hi-si. I'm not sure what Ross pistons are but you can easily find out on their website.
Good luck, hope I didn't confuse you too much and keep us posted on the project. Peace!
I ask these ??'s 'cause for your application, your engine builder is demanding conponents that goes against the virtue of "correct" so I'd like to know how he worded you into a Skunk2 Stage 3 cam. Let us in on this; not to criticize or anything but it could mean the difference between a great running beast or just a beast.
Sorry I didn't read this post earlier~ Forged pistons commonly come in two different types--4032 hi-silicon pistons and 2618 lo-silicon pistons. The only difference between the two is (you guessed it) the percentage of silicon in the material. Hi-silicon pistons expand less under high heat and therefore you can run closer tolerances with them. They are desireable for street driven vehicles because of that--they don't beat up your cylinder walls as much when cold. Lower clearances mean less piston flapping around. Also because of that, they are more brittle. They won't take as much beating as a 2618 can. If you're shooting for more than 500 rwhp on a 4 banger, than 2618 is the way to go. Anything less I would recommend 4032 hi-si for long term reliability. JE are lo-si. SRP are hi-si. I'm not sure what Ross pistons are but you can easily find out on their website.
Good luck, hope I didn't confuse you too much and keep us posted on the project. Peace!
FreeFlyin: Thanks for your response. I wish i had spoken to you sooner as it may have changed my decisions slightly. In answer to your questions, my mechanic didn't insist for me to go for stage 3 for turbo, that was my decision as originally when i went to see him, going turbo was something i was considering much further down the line. He gave me a list of components to "bulletproof" my engine so that if i wanted to go the turbo route later then i would not be likely to blow up my block. Part of this was to get the wildest cams i could get which is why i went for the Stage 3 Skunk2's. The pistons, I have just found out are 2618's.
After reading much of the information i had found on the net and on this forum, i felt that the internal upgrades would allow me to do more but with the amount of money i was going to be throwing at it, i wanted to see major power gains, which is why i have started looking at the turbo option too. The only problem i have is that now i already have ordered most of my parts. I live in the UK and obtained ALL of my parts from US and still waiting on delivery for some of the items. The decisions on the parts have all been mine based on help i have got from guys on here (some decision have been based on my own learning). I have kept my mechanic informed along the way and he tells me not to worry and that he can make the parts i have ordered work for me as it will all be tuned accordingly when it goes in for work.
Ultimately i wanted to boost my ride to the degree that i could waste impreza turbo and BMW drivers (>2.5l only of course!!) who are on my case when i am driving about so initially my target was to attain 300-350whp but also keep it reliable as my daily ride.
Now with the parts i have bought it looks like my power output will be higher and so i am having to throw more money at this project to compensate for the increase in power. I think i may be straying well past my initial goal and so i may be getting into a bit of bother. The only thing i have to my advantage is that none of the work has actually taken place yet, so i can still change my setup prior to work starting. All of the obvious things will be done so a port polish, head skim, full balance etc is in order. After speaking to guys on here i have told my mechanic to include the sleeving of my block.
In terms of the turbo, i have just purchased a t3/t4 turbo with .50 A/R, .63 hot side. I am a little confused as to whether this will be suitable for the kind of power output i want but i think it may be a little more than i wanted. From what i have seen the GT25 may have been a better option but the cost in obtaining one is considerable higher so i went for the cheaper "Turbonetics" option to keep my costs reasonably low. As you may have read, the cost so far just for parts is reaching $5k and i still need to get the LSD and intercooler.
This is the first time I am attemptign anything like this and my knowledge is increasing day by day but i have needed help right from the start as i am far from knowing what exactly i need to do. This is why i have been posting various messages on here asking for help!!!!
After reading much of the information i had found on the net and on this forum, i felt that the internal upgrades would allow me to do more but with the amount of money i was going to be throwing at it, i wanted to see major power gains, which is why i have started looking at the turbo option too. The only problem i have is that now i already have ordered most of my parts. I live in the UK and obtained ALL of my parts from US and still waiting on delivery for some of the items. The decisions on the parts have all been mine based on help i have got from guys on here (some decision have been based on my own learning). I have kept my mechanic informed along the way and he tells me not to worry and that he can make the parts i have ordered work for me as it will all be tuned accordingly when it goes in for work.
Ultimately i wanted to boost my ride to the degree that i could waste impreza turbo and BMW drivers (>2.5l only of course!!) who are on my case when i am driving about so initially my target was to attain 300-350whp but also keep it reliable as my daily ride.
Now with the parts i have bought it looks like my power output will be higher and so i am having to throw more money at this project to compensate for the increase in power. I think i may be straying well past my initial goal and so i may be getting into a bit of bother. The only thing i have to my advantage is that none of the work has actually taken place yet, so i can still change my setup prior to work starting. All of the obvious things will be done so a port polish, head skim, full balance etc is in order. After speaking to guys on here i have told my mechanic to include the sleeving of my block.
In terms of the turbo, i have just purchased a t3/t4 turbo with .50 A/R, .63 hot side. I am a little confused as to whether this will be suitable for the kind of power output i want but i think it may be a little more than i wanted. From what i have seen the GT25 may have been a better option but the cost in obtaining one is considerable higher so i went for the cheaper "Turbonetics" option to keep my costs reasonably low. As you may have read, the cost so far just for parts is reaching $5k and i still need to get the LSD and intercooler.
This is the first time I am attemptign anything like this and my knowledge is increasing day by day but i have needed help right from the start as i am far from knowing what exactly i need to do. This is why i have been posting various messages on here asking for help!!!!
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