Clutch riding + Coasting in neutral

[kbrownmann]

well then im in a delima because i can do the speed limit in neutral but i have to give it a little gas in 5th lol

 

[Billy.]

then just put it in neutral. it's really not that huge of a deal. the injector duty at idle is like 1.5%

 

[kbrownmann]

yeah and i dont know if all cars are like this, but min idles really really low it seems. it looks to be about 400rpm

 

[RonJ]

nutshell: the more your left foot plays with the pedal, the more the clutch and tob wear out

put it in gear and leave it there
coast in gear when decelerating
put it in neutral at long stops
don't powershift the b***h like speed racer. in fact, quit watching speed racer and F&F all together. those actors shift gears like 15 times between 0-45mph

[/thread]

if you put it in 5th (or any gear) and coast all the way down the hill you will use no fuel. this is what is trying to be explained, that when youre in gear and coasting your engine gets no fuel, hence why it slows down. it may still sound like its firing but its actually not

when you coast down the hill in neutral your engine uses fuel to stay idling. it's a small amount, but it adds up over time

We are on the same page. If others just take time to think about the ideas presented in this thread, more should eventually jump on board.

 

[Szady]

I dont see how this is a hard concept to comprehend. Seems like me, RonJ and Billy are the only ones competent enough to understand the point here.

 

[Ahdo]

and me!

 

[Ian123]

i used to prefer the feeling of coasting to a stop in neutral over coasting to a stop in gear where it feels like the car is pulling back. If my gas ran out 5 miles sooner who cares.

 

[knightxrider1]

ah oka. all aboard...

now.... engine braking is.... putting the car in gear while coasting? even when it goes, "vrmmmm" its not gettin fuel right?"

 

[iluvpho]

im learning a lot from this thread : ]

 

[Zzyzxek]

This engages the throw out bearing and will wear it out prematurely.



Slowing down with the transmission in gear and throttle closed saves gas because the
ECU goes into fuel cut-off mode. Slowing down in neutral uses more gas because the engine idles, which uses some gas.

x2

 

[Zzyzxek]

if you downshift properly you have to "blip" the throttle alittle before you downshift from say... 3d down to 2d gear. this is called rev matching its basically lining the engine speed with the transmission speed and when you do it properly you:
A: Save gas
B: Save wear and tear on brakes
C: Save clutch petal (because it dosent have to slip as hard when the tranny and engine speeds are the same)
D: Sounds f***ing sweet when you do it right lol

Just practice coming to stop signs and as you slow down disengage the clutch then blip the throttle so it rises about 2000rpm (depends on gear ratio's you will get used to yours tho) then engage the clutch normally and it should engage without any jerking or fuss if you match the speeds correctly.
it takes some practice. I think its called double clutching but I could be wrong.
EDIT: its *also* called double clutching I think.

 

[Matt.]

Incorrect. When you are decelerating in gear at closed throttle, the ECU goes into fuel cut off mode, which uses no gas.

Engine braking saves gas.

Oh... So the car is able to stay on due to magic?

 

[fwdpower]

Oh... So the car is able to stay on due to magic?

Damn. I even explained this early in this thread. The motion of the car keeps the car on.
Here's a scenario....

You are driving on 5th gear going about 45 mph. About half a mile from you, you noticed the light turned red. To save gas, keep it on 5th gear and don't throw it in neutral. Feel free to brake, but throw it in neutral before you reach at a dead stop and stall.

Keeping it in gear while the car is in motion (aka engine braking), will keep the car on without using a lick of gas. Fuel cut off stays in effect until a certain low RPM (before it stalls)...that RPM is the perfect time to change gears to neutral.

If you feel like the car is decelerating too much when your coasting. Keep it on 5th gear, it has the least amount of engine braking. Then downshift if you need to accelerate. Using this method saves a very significant amount. It's the very sole reason why manual cars get better MPG than automatic cars. Most automatic cars has to idle no matter what, since the transmission isn't connected to the engine when decelerating.

i was getting at the point of your using gas as long as your car is running. sitting still driving.. no matter what its using fuel.

you can decelerate in neutral. and eventually you'll come to a stop. but no matter what since the car is still running. your consuming fuel.

and how does engine braking save gas? id like to know since were on the subject.

When you throw your car in neutral, regardless if it's moving or not. It has to IDLE to keep the car on. When the car is idling, fuel cut off is past the RPM, to where it HAS to use gas to keep it on.

Do you know how a starter works? Do you know how a push start works (when someone pushes your car to get your car to run)? They are somewhat relevant to how engine braking saves gas. I don't have a clutch switch on my car...so if I keep my car on first gear, and crank the starter, the car will move forward, since the starter is turning the engine, thus turning the transmission and the wheels.

In a sense, if your car is in MOTION. And your in gear... the motion of your car, the turning of the transmission, will turn the your engine, thus keeping it on. Which uses NO gas.

 

[Matt.]

thats not what I meant fwd... What he was saying is when the car idles it uses no gas. Not just rolling. But rolling would also be considered idling as well. You can roll in an automatic as well, its the same thing as idling.

When the transmission isn't engaged the engine will see no more rpm's then are needed for idling. There is no "motion" that will keep the car on. The half-shafts are attached to the transmission, not the engine itself. So... how is "motion" going to keep the car going?

 

[KStorms2009]

Damn. I even explained this early in this thread. The motion of the car keeps the car on.
Here's a scenario....

You are driving on 5th gear going about 45 mph. About half a mile from you, you noticed the light turned red. To save gas, keep it on 5th gear and don't throw it in neutral. Feel free to brake, but throw it in neutral before you reach at a dead stop and stall.

Keeping it in gear while the car is in motion (aka engine braking), will keep the car on without using a lick of gas. Fuel cut off stays in effect until a certain low RPM (before it stalls)...that RPM is the perfect time to change gears to neutral.

If you feel like the car is decelerating too much when your coasting. Keep it on 5th gear, it has the least amount of engine braking. Then downshift if you need to accelerate. Using this method saves a very significant amount. It's the very sole reason why manual cars get better MPG than automatic cars. Most automatic cars has to idle no matter what, since the transmission isn't connected to the engine when decelerating.


So your saying stay in 5th gear till your aboutt o stall? dont downsift accordingly? 5th, to 4rth to 3rth to 2nd to adjust to your speed? u explained it as if you would stay in 5th gear till youre going about 10mph

 

[fwdpower]

So your saying stay in 5th gear till your aboutt o stall? dont downsift accordingly? 5th, to 4rth to 3rth to 2nd to adjust to your speed? u explained it as if you would stay in 5th gear till youre going about 10mph

You don't necessarily have to, but you can. Downshifting gears will cause more engine braking, which isn't desirable to some people. But if you stay in 5th, just throw it in neutral before it stalls. Which ever works for you. Like explained earlier, fuel cut off is only when it's above a certain RPM, so it will start throwing some fuel in, when it gets below that. Your car will only stall, when it's really near a dead stop, even on 5th gear.

thats not what I meant fwd... What he was saying is when the car idles it uses no gas. Not just rolling. But rolling would also be considered idling as well. You can roll in an automatic as well, its the same thing as idling.

When the transmission isn't engaged the engine will see no more rpm's then are needed for idling. There is no "motion" that will keep the car on. The half-shafts are attached to the transmission, not the engine itself. So... how is "motion" going to keep the car going?

Yes, when the transmission isn't engaged with the engine; The engine will idle, and it will use gas.
But what I comprehended from his post, is...he was explaining when your are 'decelerating'/ in motion and IN GEAR, then the car will go into fuel cut mode, and will continue to run without gas until RPM's hit below that RPM mentioned on his post. RPM's drop when the speed of the car decrease.

When your transmission is engaged (in gear), and your car is moving. Your engine is NOT idling...the RPM's you see on your tachometer is how fast the engine is turning due to the speed of the car, the movement of the car keeps the engine turning; thus using no gas. If your engine was idling and using gas, it would show sub-1k RPM region. The motion/speed of the car will keep the engine turning and keeps it on without using GAS.

Automatics cannot stay 'in gear'. So when they roll or coast, it is forced to idle when the car is rolling (regardless). In a manual, you can roll/coast in gear, you might get some engine braking, but your still in gear and NOT idling.

At least that's what I understood from his post. Maybe he quoted something, and I missed that part. I don't think he even mentioned idling in his post. But otherwise, he is correct.

 

[RonJ]

Oh... So the car is able to stay on due to magic?

Absolutely, it's magic that keeps a one-ton moving car in motion, not the well known force of physics commonly referred to as momentum.

 

[RonJ]

i used to prefer the feeling of coasting to a stop in neutral over coasting to a stop in gear where it feels like the car is pulling back. If my gas ran out 5 miles sooner who cares.

Nobody here wants to take away your choice to do what you want.

 

[RonJ]

thats not what I meant fwd... What he was saying is when the car idles it uses no gas. Not just rolling. But rolling would also be considered idling as well. You can roll in an automatic as well, its the same thing as idling.

When the transmission isn't engaged the engine will see no more rpm's then are needed for idling. There is no "motion" that will keep the car on. The half-shafts are attached to the transmission, not the engine itself. So... how is "motion" going to keep the car going?

You are clearly having difficulties reading and understanding the English language. You have made false statements above. Please provide examples of anything that I have written in my posts where I say an idling engine won't use gas.

 

[red98civ]

Slowing down with the transmission in gear and throttle closed saves gas because the ECU goes into fuel cut-off mode. Slowing down in neutral uses more gas because the engine idles, which uses some gas.

does this go for automatic cars as well? (i apologize if this is a n00b question)