H22A vs B18C5 WTF???

[FRODO]

you can rev to whatever you want.. it only helps if your ACTUALLY making power/torque up there. thats why i had asked blazed, when do b18cs stop making power/torque. and yes RedLine42 you do seem like a f**ken ricer.

and Frodo, you're that cat who said "who ever puts 20k into an motor is dumb, its just a car, why would you put soo much money into a car" remeber that? run a better trans???? wtf are you talking about, you mean tranns with shorter ratios. STUPID f**k!

wow....wtf was that about. If you or any of your H22 clan think the Hseries trans is worth two s**t then you are all f**king retards....no two ways about it. Not only does it have stupid long gears the make you pretty much drop out of vtec but they are just s**t. And yes i did say putting 20K into a CIVIC is pretty dumb and i still stand by it and will. We are not talking about cost here f**k bag so until you learn your s**t and learn how to have a little respect for people that actually know what they are saying i suggest you keep your usless post out of here.

Oh and FYI most ITR power curve will kick off at about 7800-8000. That is a stock one.

 

[Hecz]

wow....wtf was that about. If you or any of your H22 clan think the Hseries trans is worth two s**t then you are all f**king retards....no two ways about it. Not only does it have stupid long gears the make you pretty much drop out of vtec but they are just s**t. And yes i did say putting 20K into a CIVIC is pretty dumb and i still stand by it and will. We are not talking about cost here f**k bag so until you learn your s**t and learn how to have a little respect for people that actually know what they are saying i suggest you keep your usless post out of here.

Oh and FYI most ITR power curve will kick off at about 7800-8000. That is a stock one.

nigga f**k YOU , i have NO respect for you. alll you can say is "stupid long gears" ...just cause it doesnt have the ratios as short as a typeR tranns you're gona call it "stupid"? is that what makes it not "better"?... l..

hey jezek just gota typeR , go suck his d**k!

 

[FRODO]

nigga f**k YOU , i have NO respect for you. alll you can say is "stupid long gears" ...just cause it doesnt have the ratios as short as a typeR tranns you're gona call it "stupid"? is that what makes it not "better"?... l..

hey jezek just gota typeR , go suck his d**k!

Well its whatever man i could give a careless about your immature ass save it for someone that gives a s**t because i dont. And yes its "stupid long" meaning almost every shifts drops you out of vtec which does s**t for acceleration, 0-60, 1/4 mile, whole shots and pretty much everything else that has to do with staying in the power range. So yeah its kinda like putting a LS trans on a GSR.....Oh and NO NIGGA f**k you..

And when did i mention anything about Mike or his car? Didnt think so.....

 

[Blazed]

All we need is torque....da da dadadaaaa
All we need is torque....da da dadadaaaa
All we need is torque, torque
Torque is all we need
Torque is all we need

u really dont try to listen...
my point stands..that stock c5 will win in a 1/4 mile against a stock h22 in the same chassis with all variables being equal..

i advise every1 to read the following carefully and try to comprehend it..

HP and torque are two ends of the same rope. Pull one and the other follows. That said, torque is the business end of the rope.

HP is really a contrived number when you think about it, as it doesn't exist per se, as it is only derived by multiplying rpms and torque. It's meant to be a measurement of work over time (originally how much work a horse could produce in an hour or a day (gotta look that up).

We all love the "HP" number so much because it is one, easy number and point of reference rather than two, those being rpm and torque. When we say 250 hp, it keeps us from thinking something like 8300 rpms and and 193 lbs ft of torque. Unless we're talking about Formula 1 engines, we all generally know about rpm ranges of street motors, so we sort of can fill in the blanks when we get an HP number (once we know if we're talking about a 4 cylinder or V8, that is).

As for your question about top speed, in your example, your lower torque engine is matching the hp of the higher torque engine, which would only be possible because it is reving higher.

While it may not be as fast getting there, the higher hp motor, will have more top end, given the same car and gearing.

A simple way to think of it is a direct drive setup. An engine turning 9000 rpm is going to be spinning the driveshaft faster than one turning 7200 rpm, even if the 7200 rpm motor is producing more torque.

Gearing: Introduce proper gearing for each motor and things start to change. You can make the lower torque motor perform better in acceleration and the higher torque motor perform better on top end.

Aerodynamics: Put a bulldozer plow on the front of your two cars and the higher torque car will have a greater top end than the higher reving motor.

Weight: Add weight to the two cars and the higher torque motor comes through. A 155 pound 16-year-old gets his legs moving a lot faster in a foot race, leaving the 285-pound power lifter in the dust. Put 100 pounds on the kid's back and 100 lbs of the lifter's back and see how the race turns out. Torque wins.

It's all about the application, not just the torque or hp.

I am heading out to the garage to pull a fully built, high compression 1.8 ls/vtec out of a heavy, full street trim EX Civic Coupe as soon as I get done typing this. It's a great, strong motor, but I bolted it in the wrong place. The right place has been sitting in my backyard all along - a stripped down CRX so light I can lift it off the ground by myself. The ls/vtec will be so happy it will be singing like a bird on diet pills.

That will leave a big ol' open space in my EG's engine bay. I'm sticking a real weight lifter in there - a K24/K20. I think he'll be more at home than the 1.8 that used to live there.

this was taken from...

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27918

 

[Blazed]

Ok but the H22A has more tq and more horsepower than the ITR so what do you mean?

it will make no difference that it has more tq down low ...^^^^see above post

 

[Blazed]

you can rev to whatever you want.. it only helps if your ACTUALLY making power/torque up there. thats why i had asked blazed, when do b18cs stop making power/torque. and yes RedLine42 you do seem like a f**ken ricer.

and Frodo, you're that cat who said "who ever puts 20k into an motor is dumb, its just a car, why would you put soo much money into a car" remeber that? run a better trans???? wtf are you talking about, you mean tranns with shorter ratios. STUPID f**k!

i dunno what u r trying to say..but a c5 makes power past 9k..ask any1 who owned one..rand0m on this site i owned one i believe...chip the ecu and ur good till 9500...i was explaining to u that when u say b18c it could be b18c sir G which is GSR or it could be B18c type r..and we r not even talkin the jdm motor here..we r talkin c5 which is the usdm type r B..

everythgin i have said here wasn't pulled out of my ass..im trying to have a discussion here and help out the dude who made the thread..

if i was wrong i woudl be gettin worked up liek goDave also

 

[Blazed]

I'm sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have ever read. K-series are WAY overrated and way overpriced. And the H22 weighs a WHOPPING 35 or so lbs more than a K. Dang so heavy. Nothing a relocated battery or even a carbon hood couldn't fix. I think H22A's are great engines and definitely a better solution for speed.

Who wants to spend s**t loads of money to be just as fast as someone who spent half as much as you? Think about it. Most people are dropping K's in cars just to fit in. it's ridiculous. In some areas if you don't have a K, or aren't into K's the most, it's like you don't matter or don't know anything about cars. I'm sick of it.

actually its not the k series swap thats overpriced at all..u can have a type s swap anywhere from 2500-3500 complete..but its all the shyt needed to drop it into an older chassis that adds up...

no1 ever argued that h22 is NOT the best bang for the back..infact it is..but for that matter for the p[rice of a H22 i can drop a LS and go boost and eat all the series mentioned on this thread..
the title of this thread is not the best bang for the buck..its 1 vs the other...

lastly...every post or almost every post u r making in this thread..u r mentioning my name..u like my name no problemo..i woudl appreciate it if u didn't try to slander it so much...all this shyt about blazed fantasy dreams etc is not needed..

i am talkin to u.. discussing this whole issue with u.. and every1 else on this thread like an adult..in a very civil manner..but u have to resort to namecalling to prove a point? show respect to others and u will get what is coming to u but namecalling and making forceful posts and making fun of all other series motors because H has the most tq is laughable at best...

any1 can read ur comments on this thread and automatically know that u r a h22 owner..other than Jezek on this forum i have never met a non cocky h22 owner to be honest..and for good reason im sure..u guys have the ''tq'' but me on the other hand...i have not owned either of these motors..there is no hype that i am believeing..i am actually basing my opinion on facts..shyt i have seen also...i posted a very informative paragraph above..kindly read it..thanks..

 

[Hecz]

thanks blaze. you answered my question.

 

[100Percen%]

Ok but the H22A has more tq and more horsepower than the ITR so what do you mean?

it will make no difference that it has more tq down low ...^^^^see above post

Okay maybe i should have just said that it has more HP and not mentioned TQ at all because you misunderstood me. What i'm saying is why would the H22A get passed when it will beat the c5 off the line with TQ down low and it has more HP, which is what does count at higher speeds, so it'll beat the c5 further down also?

 

[GoDave!]

Not only does it have stupid long gears the make you pretty much drop out of vtec but they are just s**t. ....until you learn your s**t and learn how to have a little respect for people that actually know what they are saying i suggest you keep your usless post out of here.

Have you ever owned an H22A???? Drop out of VTEC? H22 trans has the shortest of the H23 and F22 trans. I NEVER had the H22 trans on mine. I had an H23 tranny first, then an F22 (longest gears)

Does the H22 drop out of VTEC on each shift, no
Did my H23? No
Did my F22? ONLY going into 2nd by 500rpm, as for the remaining gears.....................................................................no

You have very little experience with the H-series drivetrain as well as an H-series in general so I suggest you not post until you get a little of it under your belt.

And yes its "stupid long" meaning almost every shifts drops you out of vtec which does s**t for acceleration, 0-60, 1/4 mile, whole shots and pretty much everything else that has to do with staying in the power range. So yeah its kinda like putting a LS trans on a GSR.....

No..... not quite like putting an LS trans on a GSR, because neither have torque big guy. It's alot easier for an H22A to accelerate with longer gears so you can't really compare a lower displacent motors' drivetrain to a much larger engines'. And if "stupid long" gears does s**t for acceleration, please explain to me why an ITR's 0-60 time is damn near a half of a second slower than that of saaaay, a 1995 Prelude VTEC. That's right, you can't (7.0 ITR........6.7 Prelude, average times)

u really dont try to listen...
my point stands..that stock c5 will win in a 1/4 mile against a stock h22 in the same chassis with all variables being equal..

hahhaa....no...your point does NOT stand. In fact, it has been lying down ever since your first ridiculous post. I can assure you, typing the same thing over and over about how a C5 will pass an H22A in the 1/4 is far from "civil"

Gearing: Introduce proper gearing for each motor and things start to change. You can make the lower torque motor perform better in acceleration and the higher torque motor perform better on top end.

Aerodynamics: Put a bulldozer plow on the front of your two cars and the higher torque car will have a greater top end than the higher reving motor.

HAHAH! Well thanks for prooving my point you damn genious you! You said from the start that the B18C5 will pass it up top... The H22A will ONLY get it on the launch right???? Oh so now your agreeing with the guys on K20A, who said the SAME thing I said. Just read the bold text above.

Now, the part I bolded out for you is similar to what I was saying....No....Wait, it was the SAME THING!!!! But you were too deep into Type-R Lala land and didn't understand. The lower torque motor will be badass acceleration, no doubt. BUT after 3rd gear it falls on it's face compared to the H22A. Hence the higher TQ motor performing BETTER on top end! Wow way to "proove me wrong" Blazed. Nice try.

Frodo, Blazed, and Not-so-$lick Rick.....I don't know why you guys think you are big enough H22A gurus to sit there and say it sucks against a Type-R. You know NOTHING about them. It's my guess that you have NEVER owned one. I do not have one anymore but have had one, and get to work on them all the time still. When I had a stock H22A in my 92 Lude with a 2 1/4 exhaust and Falkens. Out of the 3-4 actual bolton ITR's I ran.....not one of them pulled on me or even got even. Keep sprinkling your pixie dust all over the C5.... I think it's hilarious.

I will ask Olock to partake in posting video of his H22A soon to show you how he does against B18C5's with similar weight and equal mods. Just keep an eye out for the thread. It will be quite funny to hear the stupid excuses you guys try to come up with I can almost read them already.

 

[Hecz]

..other than Jezek on this forum i have never met a non cocky h22 owner to be honest..

i own one, i don think im cocky. your prolly didnt even know that i own one, i dont even brag about it, i do like to defend it tho. dont you know jezek personally? he wasnt the only non cocky h22 owner. im proud and cofident . that one guy with the eg sedan(currently building), and the kid with the gold orangey 99-00 couple and rey boriqua(which owns two hatchies with h22s). there all h22 owners and they dont seem cocky at all.

 

[Blazed]

haha @ what u boldened...

earlier in the thread u said u dont give a shyt (flippitty whatever) about gearing..and now YOU ARE BOLDING A PART WHICH IS ALL ABOUT GEARING...it is only thru gearing that u can take that higher revving motor making less torque..

i already said that u take h2b into the equation and its a completely different ballgame...but again u made sure to say gearing dont mean shyt lololol and thats exactly what ur using to make ur poiint now rofl..

thats all from me. you can lead a horse to the water but u cant make em drink it

introduce proper gearinggggggggg..oh wait oh wait..who gives a flippity.... ...

 

[Blazed]

i own one, i don think im cocky. your prolly didnt even know that i own one, i dont even brag about it, i do like to defend it tho. dont you know jezek personally? he wasnt the only non cocky h22 owner. im proud and cofident . that one guy with the eg sedan(currently building), and the kid with the gold orangey 99-00 couple and rey boriqua(which owns two hatchies with h22s). there all h22 owners and they dont seem cocky at all.

dude i have said the ones i met..i never met u

 

[GoDave!]

an H22A CRX is faster than a C5 CRX, and always will be..

you can say whatever you want about that matter, but I now know that you have ZERO H-series experience so your argument is pointless. Give it the f**k up dude seriously.

 

[PhntmSk8r]

Well its whatever man i could give a careless about your immature ass save it for someone that gives a s**t because i dont. And yes its "stupid long" meaning almost every shifts drops you out of vtec which does s**t for acceleration, 0-60, 1/4 mile, whole shots and pretty much everything else that has to do with staying in the power range. So yeah its kinda like putting a LS trans on a GSR.....Oh and NO NIGGA f**k you..

And when did i mention anything about Mike or his car? Didnt think so.....

every shift drops you out of vtec?

wtf are you smoking, i RARELY fall out of vtec, and i rev to about 7500rpm. If i do fall out of vtec ever, its my 1st-2nd gear when i dont shift fast enough, or if i get alot of wheel spin going while in 1st, kuz then 2nd bogs a little, not quite enough torque to keep that going just yet... ha... And so this doesnt get twisted, NO i did not say the h22 doesnt have sufficient torque, MINE does, due to bad rod/main bearings. Which are getting replaced.

 

[DAF]

You have to be kicking, this thread is STILL GOING???

 

[OLOCK]

blazed: "A simple way to think of it is a direct drive setup. An engine turning 9000 rpm is going to be spinning the driveshaft faster than one turning 7200 rpm, even if the 7200 rpm motor is producing more torque.

Gearing: Introduce proper gearing for each motor and things start to change. You can make the lower torque motor perform better in acceleration and the higher torque motor perform better on top end.

Aerodynamics: Put a bulldozer plow on the front of your two cars and the higher torque car will have a greater top end than the higher reving motor.

Weight: Add weight to the two cars and the higher torque motor comes through. A 155 pound 16-year-old gets his legs moving a lot faster in a foot race, leaving the 285-pound power lifter in the dust. Put 100 pounds on the kid's back and 100 lbs of the lifter's back and see how the race turns out. Torque wins.

It's all about the application, not just the torque or hp."

i assume that you put that section in bold because you wanted everyone to read the fact that a 9000rpm engine has a much higher rate of speed then a 7200rpm engine? just want to make sure im understanding you correctly. keep in mind the sectoin you put in bold letters does say "in a direct drive setup" meaning no gear ratios. i dont think that anyone on the thread is goin to be arguing that aspect with you, however are you trying to say that a car that revs to 9000rpms with 64hp is goin to be faster then a car that revs to 3000rpms and makes 200hp?!?!?! of course not. but on the same token a 195hp engine that revs to 8600rpms and an engine that revs to 7500rpms and creates 200hp, doesnt mean that the higher reved engine will always win. i have just got done looking up dyno's on each engine and i think that it shows alittle bit of a different story. the itr dyno i got from http://www.itrca.com/gallery/budman/ which is the first stock dyno i got for a type r, and the h22 dyno i used from a friends bone stock 5th gen h22 prelude type sh which was done at ptuning in manassas virginia, read into what you will but i figured it might help out in this category. the itr makes a respectable 163.0 @ 7700rpms and 118.0 ft/lbs @6700 rpms, the h22 makes 168.9hp @ 6989 rpms and 131.1 ft/lbs at 5231rpms. the biggest surprise was what i saw in the dyno charts, the type r falls on its face torque wise after 6700 rpms, by redline the torque is alittle lower then 80ft/lbs, with the torque curve being pretty low through out the power band, and the horsepower falls to about 150hp at redline. meanwhile the h22 plateaus after it makes its horsepower at 6989rpms and the torque curve stays around 120 ft/lbs all day long. to me the power band of the itr is kinda erratic and jumps around while the power band of the h22 stays pretty broad, and has a linear torque curve, and doesnt fluctuate that much. read into it what you will, what i get from this is that the horsepower numbers are pretty similar, but i look at the torque at 8600rpms in the itr (under 80ft/lbs) and torque of the h22 at 7500rpms (120 ft/lbs) (which is actually a huge difference if the engines are in the same vehicle with the same weight) at the higher vehicle speeds the torque will really push the car through the wind resistance, which is where that aerodynamics start to really play a big roll. again in my opinion, i like having the h22 longer gear ratios with the broad power band of the h22. the h22 gear ratios allow you to take full advantage of the linear torque curve.

i do think that there is some misunderstanding on a few peoples part, and thats mostly because we are all on the internet and cant fully grasp emotions, or other face to face things. i do hope that nobody is offended or pissed off by my post, i just wanted there to be some actual hard evidence. AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A BASHING SESSION AND IM NOT CALLING ANYONE OUT!!!!

 

[OLOCK]

p.s. godave didnt explain that his race against the srt-4 was in his 3000 lbs. prelude. believe it or not he actually does really like the b-series, as a matter of fact he is currently looking for a b series engine to put into his crx......... maybe he'll put on a h series trans on it!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahaha just kidding.

 

[GoDave!]

p.s. godave didnt explain that his race against the srt-4 was in his 3000 lbs. prelude. believe it or not he actually does really like the b-series, as a matter of fact he is currently looking for a b series engine to put into his crx......... maybe he'll put on a h series trans on it!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahaha just kidding.

This is truly the true truth

 

[Blazed]

lol @ dyno numbers..
if u know anything about dynos..all dynos read different..were the h22 dyno and the c5 dyno done in the same facility??? back to back???same temperature? same humidity?elevation?

even 1 dynojet will not read the same as the next dynojet..same holds true for dynapacks..
HP is a number derived thru tqxrpms..whether that tq falls flat on its face or not it is still producing X hp at that certain rpm which still takes into account that tq...

u guys keep taking things out of context..yes i highlighted only one part of that post but i expected u to read all of it and maybe even go to the thread that i linked..i never said the higher revving motor can take a 200 hp motor with 64 hp...the threadstarters question in that thread was which one would win..2 cars with the same HP but one with higher tq and lower redline and the other with less tq but higher redline...if u took the time to read it u would see what i was saying...

godave can deny it all he wants but gearing plays a HUGEEEEEE role in a 1/4 mile race..i might not have ever owned a h22 but i know many people who did and still do and i know the only thing that they complain about all day is their gearing...or maybe this is just the people I KNOW with h22's lmaooooo..but its great that u like the long gearing...but if u ever come across another h22 with either a h2b or a higher final drive u will see the difference that shorter gearing can make...infact in godaves last post he highlighted a part about gearing being the remedy to get a lower revving tq'ey motor to take the win as opposed to a higher revvin less tq'ey one..after saying he doesn't care about gearing LOL

but im done with this thread...i honestly don't care if godave likes a b series or not..my arguments weren't to make like a b series..i was just saying it as it is...
have a good one