Advice on my B16 turbo setup.

[TopGear_]

I've always wanted to turbo my car just never had the money, time or knowledge. I've done tons of research and finally broke down and started buying some parts. Some are new, some are used so obviously i've decided on piecing my own setup together. Here's the thing.

I cannot decide on if I should run low psi on a stock block or build the motor first. It's a stock b16 with just over 100k miles. I know that a stock b16 is fairly strong and has made upwards of 300 hp but this is my daily and I need something reliable. This has led me to think I should build the motor the first time instead of running boost on the stocker and have to rip everything apart later down the road.

I've finally finished school so I have some extra time on my hands to play around with this.
Shoot me your opinions and suggestions from experience.

Here is a list of what I have.
Head:
-KMS Dual valve springs
-KMS Titanium retainers

Block:
-Eagle "ESP" H-Beam Rods

Turbo kit/misc.
-a/c compatible cast log manifold
-turbonetics t3/t4 turbo
-roughly 27 x 7 x 2.5" ebay intercooler
-3" downpipe
-various 2.5" piping w/ bov
-ACT Stage 1 clutch. (will be changing)
-RC 550cc injectors
-walbro 255 fuel pump
-oil line kit
-tapped oil pan
-manual boost controller
-a/f, oil pressure and boost gauges w/ pod

 

[TopGear_]

I've priced around and to build my b16 it would cost around $1700 for all new parts. Does that sound right? That's including the following:

Rods, pistons, race bearings, block guard, new gaskets and seals, springs and retainers, valve seals, valves, and head studs.




Also! I am debating whether or not to keep the ac and ps. Yes, I have an a/c compatible mani but was wondering what your opinions were. I would much rather keep the a/c than the ps due to living in Florida.

 

[Omegastorm]

Dude the build sounds good, if you got the money to rebuild and start fresh i would nothing like a fresh built block and head ready for some thrashing on the street plus with forged pistons ans rods with rings you are making it more reliable and able to handle more PSI cause your gonna want more boost.

 

[el_betiyo]

^^^^x2

What are you planning to use for tune?

 

[Silver Bullet]

i bet you already know that the car will have more power with the ac and ps gone...i drove my friends civic that was boosted when he had ac and ps...than he took it off...was a bit faster nothing too crazy...but hes putting the ac and ps back on cause of the summer..the 1700 seems about right im guessing your building your own kit...whose going to tune ur car? im in the process of boosting my k

 

[civhatch92]

My stock B16 lasted almost a year until I bent a valve. I was pushing 268whp@10psi. I'm now in the process of upgrading all the internals to beef everything up for more power. I say build it if you have the time&money.

 

[TopGear_]

Dude the build sounds good, if you got the money to rebuild and start fresh i would nothing like a fresh built block and head ready for some thrashing on the street plus with forged pistons ans rods with rings you are making it more reliable and able to handle more PSI cause your gonna want more boost.

yea that's what I was thinking as well. Maybe i'll go ahead and get the pistons/rods etc. because i'll just want me power in the long run.

^^^^x2

What are you planning to use for tune?

I would like to use Hondata but actually was looking for something a little cheaper like crome. If it comes down to it I'll just dish out more money for the Hondata but not sure if it's worth it.

i bet you already know that the car will have more power with the ac and ps gone...i drove my friends civic that was boosted when he had ac and ps...than he took it off...was a bit faster nothing too crazy...but hes putting the ac and ps back on cause of the summer..the 1700 seems about right im guessing your building your own kit...whose going to tune ur car? im in the process of boosting my k

Yea I would like to ditch the ac and ps not only to make more power but it would make the bay look less cluttered and will give me more room. but here in Florida, especially now, it would be HELL without ac. As far as taking out the ps, I wouldn't know because I've never driven one without ps.

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

[TopGear_]

My stock B16 lasted almost a year until I bent a valve. I was pushing 268whp@10psi. I'm now in the process of upgrading all the internals to beef everything up for more power. I say build it if you have the time&money.

Yea that's what I'm worried about. It's my daily and I dont feel like installing everything and 6months to a year down the road have to rip everything back off and rebuild the sob.

 

[civhatch92]

Yea that's what I'm worried about. It's my daily and I dont feel like installing everything and 6months to a year down the road have to rip everything back off and rebuild the sob.

Word.. mine was my daily as well. It's been getting rebuilt since June 2008 when it blew up.. slow process since I'm also doing body work and a fresh paint job.

 

[TopGear_]

Word.. mine was my daily as well. It's been getting rebuilt since June 2008 when it blew up.. slow process since I'm also doing body work and a fresh paint job.

Nice. How have you been getting around if it was ur daily? I almost want to buy a beater to get around but that will set the build back even further. What do yall think about buying a used block and building that one?

 

[civhatch92]

Nice. How have you been getting around if it was ur daily? I almost want to buy a beater to get around but that will set the build back even further. What do yall think about buying a used block and building that one?

Driving my old beat 1988 ford escort automatic
Buying a used block and building it would give you less down time, you could just build it up and then swap it in one weekend!

 

[TopGear_]

Driving my old beat 1988 ford escort automatic
Buying a used block and building it would give you less down time, you could just build it up and then swap it in one weekend!

true. Now as far as getting lower compression pistons, the same 81 mm that I have now, I will still need to get the head honed and bored correct? or how exactly does this work? I've researched about if but can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. I want aftermarket pistons and rods but want to keep the same bore(if that's possible). Or would it make more sense to go ahead and bore it out?

 

[civhatch92]

I'm keeping the stock bore, just went with different pistons/rods. I got 9:2.1 weisco pistons and some manley I-beam rods. You could bore the block for a bit more power.. I don't have the money to do that nor do I have much knowledge about it, perhaps someone else could help you out.

 

[TopGear_]

alright thanks for the info

 

[toneekay]

Top Gear! Mr. Mclovin, you're a good guy; so here's my view on all of this...

Shoot me your opinions and suggestions from experience.

Here is a list of what I have.

-a/c compatible cast log manifold
-turbonetics t3/t4 turbo
-roughly 27 x 7 x 2.5" ebay intercooler
-3" downpipe
-various 2.5" piping w/ bov
-ACT Stage 1 clutch.
-RC 550cc injectors
-walbro pump
-oil line kit
-tapped oil pan
-manual boost controller
-a/f, oil pressure and boost gauges w/ pod

Seems pretty basic, yet a nice little homeade turbo kit.

I've priced around and to build my b16 it would cost around $1700 for all new parts. Does that sound right? That's including the following:

Rods, pistons, race bearings, block guard, new gaskets and seals, springs and retainers, valve seals, valves, and head studs.

Now, $1700 does sound about right (if you're just buying everything brand new off those little sites with aftermarket parts), but you can find cheaper; especially through site vendors. If you have the money for all of this and it gives you piece at mind, then by all means go for it. However, if you want to go a little cheaper route, here's what you can possibly consider.

Head:
Seals, springs, retainers, valves, etc... Head work... If you plan on doing all of this yourself, I recommend looking into a machine shop. There are PLENTY of automotive machine shops out there in Florida. Now you don't have to go all out and get a full port and polish, oversized valve bore, etc etc... But you can look into having them give you a simple tank & polish (that's what they call it here in TX) job. Basically, they're just cleaning out EVERYTHING on the head, bring it back to stock specs, and give it a little coating. So pretty much, it's brand new again! The things with these places is that, some of them do rebuilds so at the same time getting your head cleaned, you can have them install your valves, seals, retainers, guides, and so for. And most places will give you deal (if you get blah blah and blah, it'll only be $299), or whatever. Pretty much what I'm saying is that, a machine shop will give you different deals if you go up there in person and tell them what you need done.

You may think to yourself, damn, that's a lot of work, and sounds expensive... Really, it's not all that much. If you go to the machine shop, and get your headwork done there, they'll replace the internals with OEM equivelant parts, and it'll be cheaper. Now if you throw in the aftermarket internals that you bought, that'll just add to your price list.
*Estimated value of total cost for OEM head rebuild: $300-400 (this is only estimated from TX pricing)
- I got this done for a friends B16a2 head for around $330 after tax

Block:
This is pretty much works the same way as the head. If you have it all apart, you can have them resurface the face of the block (where it meets the head), hone out your cylinders, and let it sit in a hot tank for a couple hours. This will pretty much "recondition" your block, and it'll be like new again. Now, it's up to you whether or not to get the pistons, rods, bearings, etc... But it's not virtually needed if you're looking for a safe, fun, reliable daily driver. The only thing I would look at getting are head studs; what's more better than knowing that you'll be able to keep your block and head together, right? NOW, there's one exception, if your internals are beat up, and look like hell, then, and only then I would recommend getting new aftermarket parts.

*I don't know about over there, but TX has rediculously cheap hot bathing, honing, resurfacing job for the block. Estimated value: $250-300
- I also had this done for a friends B16a2 block, total came out to be $225 even after tax.

Now, if you take this all in... And let's just say, prices are a little higher in your area, and I'll just throw out a number... $800, and you'll have a "like new, reconditioned" motor ready for whatever you've got to throw at it. Compare that to the pricing you came up with on the aftermarket rebuild. This comes up cheaper, and still very reliable!

So again, all this work for what? Cheap, reliable, and fun daily driver.
Aftermarket support, why not? Well, are you going to be racing, beating, and romping on the motor?

Also! I am debating whether or not to keep the ac and ps. Yes, I have an a/c compatible mani but was wondering what your opinions were. I would much rather keep the a/c than the ps due to living in Florida.

If it's your daily driver, and you got the log manifold, might as well keep the a/c and p/s. Just like you said, summers in Florida + no a/c = Fail. Having a nice turboed car without p/s = Fail. Trust me, if you've never driven a car without p/s, you're going to hate parallel parking & U-turns.

*Last but not least, reliability & power comes within the tune. Get your car tuned professionally and you'll never regret it!

Good luck with reading all of that!

 

[TopGear_]

Top Gear! Mr. Mclovin, you're a good guy; so here's my view on all of this...



Seems pretty basic, yet a nice little homeade turbo kit.




Now, $1700 does sound about right (if you're just buying everything brand new off those little sites with aftermarket parts), but you can find cheaper; especially through site vendors. If you have the money for all of this and it gives you piece at mind, then by all means go for it. However, if you want to go a little cheaper route, here's what you can possibly consider.

Head:
Seals, springs, retainers, valves, etc... Head work... If you plan on doing all of this yourself, I recommend looking into a machine shop. There are PLENTY of automotive machine shops out there in Florida. Now you don't have to go all out and get a full port and polish, oversized valve bore, etc etc... But you can look into having them give you a simple tank & polish (that's what they call it here in TX) job. Basically, they're just cleaning out EVERYTHING on the head, bring it back to stock specs, and give it a little coating. So pretty much, it's brand new again! The things with these places is that, some of them do rebuilds so at the same time getting your head cleaned, you can have them install your valves, seals, retainers, guides, and so for. And most places will give you deal (if you get blah blah and blah, it'll only be $299), or whatever. Pretty much what I'm saying is that, a machine shop will give you different deals if you go up there in person and tell them what you need done.

You may think to yourself, damn, that's a lot of work, and sounds expensive... Really, it's not all that much. If you go to the machine shop, and get your headwork done there, they'll replace the internals with OEM equivelant parts, and it'll be cheaper. Now if you throw in the aftermarket internals that you bought, that'll just add to your price list.
*Estimated value of total cost for OEM head rebuild: $300-400 (this is only estimated from TX pricing)
- I got this done for a friends B16a2 head for around $330 after tax

Block:
This is pretty much works the same way as the head. If you have it all apart, you can have them resurface the face of the block (where it meets the head), hone out your cylinders, and let it sit in a hot tank for a couple hours. This will pretty much "recondition" your block, and it'll be like new again. Now, it's up to you whether or not to get the pistons, rods, bearings, etc... But it's not virtually needed if you're looking for a safe, fun, reliable daily driver. The only thing I would look at getting are head studs; what's more better than knowing that you'll be able to keep your block and head together, right? NOW, there's one exception, if your internals are beat up, and look like hell, then, and only then I would recommend getting new aftermarket parts.

*I don't know about over there, but TX has rediculously cheap hot bathing, honing, resurfacing job for the block. Estimated value: $250-300
- I also had this done for a friends B16a2 block, total came out to be $225 even after tax.

Now, if you take this all in... And let's just say, prices are a little higher in your area, and I'll just throw out a number... $800, and you'll have a "like new, reconditioned" motor ready for whatever you've got to throw at it. Compare that to the pricing you came up with on the aftermarket rebuild. This comes up cheaper, and still very reliable!

So again, all this work for what? Cheap, reliable, and fun daily driver.
Aftermarket support, why not? Well, are you going to be racing, beating, and romping on the motor?




If it's your daily driver, and you got the log manifold, might as well keep the a/c and p/s. Just like you said, summers in Florida + no a/c = Fail. Having a nice turboed car without p/s = Fail. Trust me, if you've never driven a car without p/s, you're going to hate parallel parking & U-turns.

*Last but not least, reliability & power comes within the tune. Get your car tuned professionally and you'll never regret it!

Good luck with reading all of that!

Hot damn! thank you kind sir! that's basically what I was looking for in this thread haha. A lot of that was new to me and I'll def be looking back on this when it comes time for the machine shop. I now have some decition making to do lol. and pricing around. once again, thanks for your info... some good s**t

 

[s_crowley 17]

t3/t4.. what size do you plan on running? a low A/F ? or smething thatll have more top end? I would suggest a .52 trim
spool pretty quick and itll make great topend power

 

[toneekay]

Hot damn! thank you kind sir! that's basically what I was looking for in this thread haha. A lot of that was new to me and I'll def be looking back on this when it comes time for the machine shop. I now have some decision making to do lol. and pricing around. once again, thanks for your info... some good s**t

Anytime sir; good luck with it all!

 

[TopGear_]

t3/t4.. what size do you plan on running? a low A/F ? or smething thatll have more top end? I would suggest a .52 trim
spool pretty quick and itll make great topend power

I already have the turbo purchased. it's a .48 a/f. so i should have a quick spool but lower top end power

Anytime sir; good luck with it all!

thanks! now, it's basically save cash and go from there.

 

[toneekay]

During your tune, your tuner can dyno and show you how much power the turbo has to dish out up to a certain RPM. Mostl likely that turbo is going to run out of steam at around 7k RPM or so... Your engine has alot more in it to rev higher, so imo, look for a slightly larger turbo and it'll suite you better.

*A matter of fact, I think CHAOS has a similar turbo to yours, you should PM him and see how long he holds boost up to "x" RPM.