Ignition retard/advance, per PSI boost?

whtcivic93

www.mm-graphics.net
Well guys im finally boosted, as of today at 7:14pm lol. And im absolutely loving every second of it!

Just one thing bothers me.. when im not in boost yet my car is sluggish as hell! Like the timing is out.. which im sure it is because i didnt advance/retard because im not sure what to do.

Ive read somewhere that you advance/retard(cant remember which) 1° per PSI boost. I have a feeling i need to do that, so if im boosting at a good 4.5-5psi what would you guys recomend i do?
 

Steven.

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enign emanagment?
 


whtcivic93

www.mm-graphics.net
none for now, just runnin very low boost and getting my tuning s**t together.
I know I know, thats a no,no.. but f**k it, for a few days anyway..
What you figure i should get thats not 500 bucks, and would give me the ability to tune the air fuel mapping of the ecu? Eventually i want to chip the ecu and just go have it tuned. but for now i need somthin quick and anything is safer than nothing.
 

Steven.

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crome pro.

just go with a chippe ecu, dont cheap out and go with a FMU or hack.

are you using stock map sensor?
 


whtcivic93

www.mm-graphics.net
Green 91 said:
crome pro.

just go with a chippe ecu, dont cheap out and go with a FMU or hack.

are you using stock map sensor?
yeah, everything is stock right now. Thats why im keepin her down at 4psi
 

oneThree

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its well worth it and get hondata for proper acurate tuning, car runs SO MUCH nicer all the way up to 16 psi!
 

93turbo16

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92BluePill said:
its well worth it and get hondata for proper acurate tuning, car runs SO MUCH nicer all the way up to 16 psi!
At 16 psi the world ends... haha

But seriously, follow everyone's advice. Atleast get a chipped ecu for your setup and a basemap so you can drive it around.
 

whtcivic93

www.mm-graphics.net
93turbo16 said:
At 16 psi the world ends... haha

But seriously, follow everyone's advice. Atleast get a chipped ecu for your setup and a basemap so you can drive it around.
Will be ordered monday, but until then what should i do? Isnt there a rule of thumb to advance or retard the timing at the distributor a few degrees?
 

RHennin

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Speaking of basemaps, where do you guys get your basemaps from usually? can you get them from somewhere online that would let you roughly calculate everything with whatever setup u have? or would you get it from whoever your tuner is? I'm planning on boosting eventually and I'm doing a ton of research and just wanta learn more about this stuff.
 

95civicvx

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whtcivic93 said:
Will be ordered monday, but until then what should i do? Isnt there a rule of thumb to advance or retard the timing at the distributor a few degrees?
I know what your talking about. I can't exactly place where i found this info from, but i thought it was 2 deg retard for every psi. I did find similar info on the MSD website and i quote.

"The MSD BTM (Boost Timing Master) comes in two forms... The BTM which is just an add on for any MSD 6 series ignition system and the MSD6BTM which is their 6 series ignition and the BTM in one unit... (less expensive this way) The MSD6BTM can both control the timing of the spark based on the amount of boost present and it can increase the current of the spark which under boost is harder to ignite. Simply put, it makes bigger sparks at the plug which means more air & fuel can be exploded at one time which equals power... With the MSD6BTM you can also run a stock or nearly stock ignition timing which will result in good 'off the line' performance but it also retards the timing a set amount as the boost pressure increases. The amount of retard is user adjustable from 0 to 3° per PSI of boost... A normal setting is 1°/PSI but more or less can be used depending on your setup and how the car is reacting to other variables such as air temp, gas octane, ect... So at 1PSI of boost, it will retard out 1° of timing... At 6PSI of boost, it will retard 6° of timing... When not on boost like at idle or cruising at a constant speed, it will not retard the timing at all... (Again, this is user adjustable) In any case, the MSD6BTM is more of a dual purpose device to both retard timing to PREVENT detonation as well as fire a spark with more energy which will help ignite the pressurized mix better. "


So this agrees with your info of 1 deg for every psi of boost.

If i may offer a bit of advice on what i would do if i were planning on boosting. I would have at least A wideband o2 sensor with an air to fuel gauge, retard the timing (or better yet an MSD BTM or equivilent ), adjustable fuel pressure regulator (or better yet a fuel management unit), colder ranged spark plugs, possibly bigger injectors, and a bigger fuel pump. On a similar note i highly recommend you install an oil cooler, and an oil psi gauge
I wouldn't drive anything boosted at any psi unless i had those items atleast, and i knew how to tune it all well enough. But in an ideal world you need an eninge management unit and someone Professional to tune it.
 

slowhatch

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Green 91 said:
crome pro.

just go with a chippe ecu, dont cheap out and go with a FMU or hack.

are you using stock map sensor?
shouldnt you only get crome pro if you have a laptop? if not then how are you going to make adjustments to your chip when you're on a dyno?
 

whtcivic93

www.mm-graphics.net
slowhatch said:
shouldnt you only get crome pro if you have a laptop? if not then how are you going to make adjustments to your chip when you're on a dyno?
The tuner would have a laptop is my guess... But either way, ive got one. No big deal.
 

mike@synapse

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i know a guy that did just what you did, he got his kit together and didnt want to wait to install his ems he just wanted to drive it boosted. car lasted about 5 minutes....now he has a built block.

a stock engine cant handle any boost without proper engine management. if you are retarding the dizzy to obtain the proper ignition value of course its gonna run like crap out of boost.

dont be greedy. please dont boost that engine until you get the ecu. and dont beat on it while you are on a basemap.
 

93turbo16

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mike@synapse said:
i know a guy that did just what you did, he got his kit together and didnt want to wait to install his ems he just wanted to drive it boosted. car lasted about 5 minutes....now he has a built block.

a stock engine cant handle any boost without proper engine management. if you are retarding the dizzy to obtain the proper ignition value of course its gonna run like crap out of boost.

dont be greedy. please dont boost that engine until you get the ecu. and dont beat on it while you are on a basemap.
Well said, I have seen a few of these as well. The second time arond I am the first person they drive there car to.

BTW, I can also provide basemaps and also am a CC sponsor.
 

ryan89crx

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whtcivic93 said:
yeah, everything is stock right now. Thats why im keepin her down at 4psi
even 4psi can grenade a motor...

stop driving it until you get some sort of management
 

whtcivic93

www.mm-graphics.net
okay well im on the hunt for some sort of mgmnt, and i need a downpipe bad. No 1st o2 sensor = Very bad gas mileage.. anybody know where to order premade downpipes?

Also how can i find tuners near me in my area? I want to go with Crome Pro, but im not sure what the tuners here are familiar with.
 


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