Set distributor timing

[DarkFlame]

1998 Civic LX, stock from original dealer purchase in late '97.

The car died at a stop light, and the cause was a blown distributor - diagnosis was done by me and confirmed professionally. New distributor was installed, and the car started and ran immediately.

However, the CEL came on immediately & will not go off. The code is 420, which corresponds to a number of things, starting with a bad catalytic converter (replaced March, '13, so I know that is not the trouble), and including poor timing that causes an inefficient burn, resulting in the car thinking the converter is bad.

When we replaced the distributor, the engine was in the exact same position putting on the new distributor as when we took off the old one. The engine was set at 0° TDC for removal and never moved during the 20 minutes it took to install the new one.

However, the engine does have a slightly different sound from pre-distributor-replacement. I think the timing is off ... just a hair. Changing the timing is easy, just twist the distributor .001° and retighten the bolts.

But, how can I tell, other than the sound, that I have it right - WITHOUT having to reset the CEL and then see if it re-appears???

Do I need a timing light? or is there some other way?

I'm thinking of taking it to a pro to let them set it, but would prefer to do it myself.

THANKS!!!

 

[sixwhip14]

If you didn't use a timing gun I suggest you do so. 'Eric the car guy' on youtube has a good video that shows you how.
Good luck.

 

[DarkFlame]

I'm having trouble getting to the timing marks. I am at my FILs and he has a timing light. Where can I find instructions for accessing the timing marks?

 

[sixwhip14]

The marks are on the timing belt cover and crank pulley.

 

[RonJ]

... the CEL came on immediately & will not go off. The code is 420, which corresponds to...including poor timing that causes an inefficient burn, resulting in the car thinking the converter is bad.

^Not true.

In and of itself, the ignition timing being off would not throw CEL code P0420. This code almost always means the cat is dead, although in some cases it can also be thrown by an exhaust leak.

What likely happened is that the failed distributor caused severe engine misfiring, which released unburnt fuel into the exhaust. The heat of the cat caused this fuel to ignite, which melted the cat substrate (= dead cat).

You will almost surely need to replace the cat to clear code P0420.

 

[DarkFlame]

Well, I was completely wrong.

When the distributor failed, it was epic ... driving fine one second, and absolutely no spark from it the next. I GUESS it could have been failing slowly, and causing things not to burn correctly, but the CEL never came on before the total failure.

When I replaced the distributor, the CEL came on & stayed. I figured the timing was off.

So, I drove it out to my FIL's where he has a timing light, and we were going to check it.

HOWEVER, neither of us could find the timing marks. The car sounded differently to me, so we were thinking about just adjusting the timing like the old hot rods - listening as we moved the distributor. We were LOOKING for the timing marks, bumping the engine to see if they would show up on the pulleys. On the 3rd bump, the car started.

He, and a mechanic friend of his who was there for the beer, listened to the car (as if that's REALLY good enough - NOT), and said it sounded as smooth as it ever sounded & was running fine.

SO, I disconnected the battery and let the car sit for 15 minutes.

Then, I reconnected the battery, started the engine, let the dash lights go off (& the CEL went off, too), and then shut off the car. We have since driven the car the 21 highway miles back home, and the CEL is staying off.

Now, about the Catalytic Converter ... as you mentioned ...

The CEL came on last February, and the code was for the O2 sensor. The exhaust manifold was cracked at the upper O2 sensor (as I have come to learn is common on these cars). So, I ordered a new manifold/converter (all-in-1) from CarPartsWholesale.com - now PartsTrain.com. I will admit that it was the worst piece of cr@p I have ever purchased - the engine mating surface of the manifold was not smooth - having gaps between it and the ruler I used to check it. I did goop it up with appropriately rated stuff, and have had no issues with it since then - almost a full year. I replaced both O2 sensors when I replaced the manifold/converter, and we do not put more than 8k miles on any vehicle during a year.

I wish I could find the slip of paper that AutoZone gave me with the items that the P0420 means. The one that captured my attention was something like "inefficient fuel ignition." That, in and of itself, can be caused by poor timing, and so that is what I was trying to fix.

As it APPEARS to be NOW, the code seems to have been invalid for the car - POST-distributor installation, and may have been left over from the moment (or seconds leading up to) the distributor died. I was driving the car when it died, and there was no CEL lit. We had the car towed home.

The only thing I can conceive (at this moment) is that the CEL may have been triggered while trying to crank the car with the non-working distributor - pumping gas into the cylinders but not igniting them.

I am upset with myself for not resetting the CEL first, so that I could see if it was a current problem with the new distributor. I just figured that since it was never on with the old distributor, it must have been something with the new one (timing, since that is about the only thing one can change on these distributors).

So, my lesson here?

Always reset the CEL and see if it comes back before trying to fix what the CEL is showing!!!

I do wish I could find the timing marks. There is nothing on the timing belt cover that indicates anything to do with the timing - that I can find. Visibility between the a/c, water pump, etc., belts does not allow us to see the edge of the crankshaft pulley. And, to take the cover off the timing belt requires removal of the valve cover.

If there is a more proper/successful way to spot the timing marks, I would greatly appreciate it. The Mechanic who confirmed my bad distributor diagnosis set the engine to 0° TDC by measuring how high the piston was in the #1 cylinder - sticking a screwdriver in the cylinder as he gently turned the engine. Any suggestions?

Finally, I really appreciate the responses. THANKS to ALL!

 

[RonJ]

There are 4 timing marks, group of three marks and lone white mark, on the crank pulley. With the service connector jumped and the engine warmed up and idling to spec, the pointer (similar to sight of a gun) on the lower timing belt cover should align with the red mark (middle in group of three).