what would be better Integra LS/GS or Civic Si

[chameleon30038]

i just wondering what i would get more power out of .....i know the si has more power stock but give me some ideas please. Would i have to upgrade internals to boost either engine....just wondering but i won't have the money for a while.

 

[civicracing98]

it all depends on how u build it, id give this one to the LS if it has a vtec head

 

[soldiaboy]

the SI like you has the most power but the LS would be your best bet to turbo

 

[Killa_CiViC]

the SI like you has the most power but the LS would be your best bet to turbo

Why do you say that?

 

[soldiaboy]

LS is wayy cheaper than the SI and its stronger. btw torque

 

[Killa_CiViC]

LS is wayy cheaper than the SI and its stronger. btw torque

It's stronger? how is it stronger?... I was under the impression that the internal geometry of the B16A was MUCH better than the B18A/B. And it's got like 10-15 more ft.lbs. of torque, and no top end...

Cheaper for a reason?

 

[LatinEM2]

Also the B18 non-VTEC's have lower compression

 

[child_racer]

if you left both engines in stock form and boosted them, the Si would have more power

 

[chameleon30038]

if you left both engines in stock form and boosted them, the Si would have more power

Your a pretty knowledgable guy as far as ur post go....i am planin on the basics I.H.E as well as prob some internal stuff like piston,rings, rods and cams. So let me know

 

[child_racer]

If you're going for an ALL MOTOR set-up, then its the B16 for sure. When boosting either engine...you can get incredile amounts of power from each. The engine outputs are going to be close to same if you upgraded equally. (the Si is going to stay stronger on the top end.....and the LS would always have more torque due to the displacement) No im almost sure someone is going to point out Cheesefrog's LS turbo hatch......but if you were to do all the same upgrades to a B16 you'd still have more top end and less torque.

IHE on a B16 will outperform a LS with IHE

 

[Bizzle24v]

go with the si its sicker but that might be jsut becuz i have one

 

[soldiaboy]

It's stronger? how is it stronger?... I was under the impression that the internal geometry of the B16A was MUCH better than the B18A/B. And it's got like 10-15 more ft.lbs. of torque, and no top end...

Cheaper for a reason?

I thought a b18b can hold more boost than a b16 on stock internals, making it stronger in that sense

 

[child_racer]

it holds more boost because of the lower compression but once you raise that boost up it equals the B16 but with more torque. Its unfair to compare two engines with different set-ups.....so if you were to raise the boost equally with the Si, the Si would be better. You can only run like 1 or 2 psi more boost with it stock, so its not as huge of a difference as people make it seem

 

[soldiaboy]

ok thanks man, I understand what your saying if there equal but the price difference of the two motors is pretty large, meaning the extra 600 or so someone pays for the b16, I can spend on more mods making the b18b faster

 

[Listerman]

the b18 would be my choice by far. ive heard so many people say they arent happy with b16. a local shop here has an LS motor on stock internals pushing close to 250+ hp now i dont know how long thatll last but its boosted and its mean as hell

 

[denracho]

i think ls has 140 stock and civic si have 160 stock,, i would say the si is youre best bet..

 

[Listerman]

I would worry more about power output than boost levels. 8psi with a T3 50/60 trim is NOT the same as 8psi with a T3/60-1.

I would say (and this is somewhat up for debate) that a stock LS motor will hold together in one piece to between 250 and 270whp, which will probably mean between 235 and 260 ft/lbs of torque, assuming stock cams. This also assumes excellent tuning - no FMU bullshit, no crazy ass ignition tables. The LS comes from the factory with 9.2:1 compression, which is a great compression ratio for boost. Rods are good for 275-300 whp, but the pistons are still cast. If you are willing to be nice to your LS motor and treat it well, you should be good to go. A set of rods+pistons+new rings (OEM rings = best IMHO) and a 2/3bar MAP sensor is really all you need to hit 300-350whp, assuming your turbo and intercooler can keep up. Add some headwork and cams and look out.

I would not do anything to the head unless you build the bottom end AND get cams.

Things that would probably be wise to replace if you have the motor apart regardless of whether you build it or not:
#1 - ARP/AEBS headstuds
#2 - new oil pump
#3 - new water pump (use B20/GSR - more output), timing belt (match water pump - B20 belt if you use better water pump)
#4 - new keepers in head (I've seen a LOT of LS motors drop valves from retainer failure, particularly higher mileage motors)
#5 - rings (if your compression is below 185 across the board or isn't within 5% spread)
#6 - clutch. LS motors make horsepower by making shitloads of torque. Torque is harder on your clutch (and transmission) than higher revving horsepower. Remember this, and get a clutch that will hold more torque than you expect to make - you'll probably need it.

Hope that helps.
-Dave

Edit: said retainers, meant keepers. The two half-moon clips that hold the retainers on the valves.

this comes from a local honda guru! tunes, chips, builds, you name it this guy will probably try it. look into the long run. if u want to boost, boost an LS

 

[Listerman]

and an LS is going to save your wallet quite a bit

 

[child_racer]

You can make the higher priced B16 faster as long as you're willing to pay the bucks to get it done. Some of the most powerfull boosted cars i've seen are TypeR's......but everyone knows how expensive a TypeR is so they go down to the next best thing. A LS is the bottom of the line DOHC for boost...so thats why its preffered. Almost no one wants to spend loads of cash to make a fast ride.......but IMO its worth it

 

[ZuM00Si]

All the extra power is all for not if you cant drive your car. I have seen guys with stock LS race a Si with intake and exhaust and whoop all over them so its really up to the driver. But I used to have an Si and I would pick the Si over a LS any day