H22A vs B18C5 WTF???

[Blazed]

Tranny gearing plays a huge part in a drag race hence why they invented h2b as the H tranny was holding back the H motor (n/a applications atleast)..more specifically its lousy gearing...

and what drag racing teams r running all H? clutchmasters team..the team thats whooping every1 left and rigth in street stock..sfwd..are all K'ed up..k's still have less tq than H and about the same hp..just an example those r not stock k's by any means but with their budget they can mod any motor they see fit...

lol @ i know nothing about the topic...

i make sense..ur just not trying to understand

 

[GoDave!]

Tranny gearing plays a huge part in a drag race hence why they invented h2b as the H tranny was holding back the H motor (n/a applications atleast)..more specifically its lousy gearing...

and what drag racing teams r running all H? clutchmasters team..the team thats whooping every1 left and rigth in street stock..sfwd..are all K'ed up..k's still have less tq than H and about the same hp..just an example those r not stock k's by any means but with their budget they can mod any motor they see fit...

lol @ i know nothing about the topic...

i make sense..ur just not trying to understand

haha whatever dude. Since the C5 sucks against the H22 you want to bring K's into the argument. HAHAHA ridiculous. I'm finished.

Give it up...the C5 is not a better motor for drag than an H22....end of story.

 

[Blazed]

a k is very similar to a b18c5 as far as power output goes..200/140..and it goes against ur TQ argument...hence why i brought it up...

i woudl still like to hear about all these teams that are all using the H motor in their drag racing teams..last i heard the market was still predominantly B series..but what do i know.

 

[GoDave!]

a k is very similar to a b18c5 as far as power output goes..200/140..and it goes against ur TQ argument...hence why i brought it up...

i woudl still like to hear about all these teams that are all using the H motor in their drag racing teams..last i heard the market was still predominantly B series..but what do i know.

Brauning Motorsports (2.56 liter H-series N/A drag car 10.04 pass)

Hasport.

DH Racing (low 11 second N/A "K-Killer")

Oaks Racing (worlds fastest street driven Prelude, now in the 9's)

to name a few..

No it does NOT go against my tq argument it's still 23 ft/lbs short! And you want to talk power output? Your base H22 puts out the same power as a K20A2. But it puts out way more tq. And tell me what C5 puts out as much power than the JDM Si-R Preludes' 220hp. Only the K20A spec-R comes close to that (217hp) And still not as much tq as the Si-R. JUST better gearing and new technology (VTC and such). So yea... what DO you know.

Go sign up on K20A.org....You might learn something. I have an account on there and post / read-up daily.

 

[Hecz]

...

yeh the h22 will have a nice lead from the dig...but as ur running out of rpm's is when the b18c will catch up and pass u...

when does the B18c stop making power/tq?

 

[PhntmSk8r]

c5 = handbuilt motor from honda..

it's not the rarity of it that pushes the price up..its the demand...its not all that rare since it was produced here and abroad...

also some1 said that h22 vs c5 the h22 would pull a couple cars on the top ROFL..let me just say

with all variables being equal if u have h22 and c5 or c-R in the same chassis..its the B18c that will pull two cars at the end...the H will pull on it from the dig but the B will catch it and pass it...no question about it..

good luck with ur decision.

maybe a b18c into a civic vs a bolt on prelude... MAYBE.

For further reference... my H dynoed at 163hp/144tq to the wheels with knocking rods and a buried rich A/F ratio... I dont know of any B that could pull that under those conditions.

my buddy has a b16block/ITR head in his 00 SI, tuned, and i put probably 3-4 lengths on him by the end... even with my subs and s**t in my car. We've dicked around and raced probably 5-6 times and its been the same every time.

Im also personally thinking about the h2b combo... b series definatly have the upper hand on the drivetrain side...

Comparing "OEM Output" ratings to argue, is flat pointless. WAY too many variables involved to even get an accurate argument going.

EDIT:
Just thought of something.

I have a buddy that just put a gsr (understanding its not itr, but this argument seems to be b18C_ vs h22 now...) in his 96 ex civic... i have a 96 ex civic with a base model jdm h22, no lsd, dynod 163whp/144wtq... as soon as i get my s**t back on the road ill run him, get it on camera, and post it in this thread. Then maybe a mod will lock it.

 

[Blazed]

Brauning Motorsports (2.56 liter H-series N/A drag car 10.04 pass)

Hasport.

DH Racing (low 11 second N/A "K-Killer")

Oaks Racing (worlds fastest street driven Prelude, now in the 9's)

to name a few..

No it does NOT go against my tq argument it's still 23 ft/lbs short! And you want to talk power output? Your base H22 puts out the same power as a K20A2. But it puts out way more tq. And tell me what C5 puts out as much power than the JDM Si-R Preludes' 220hp. Only the K20A spec-R comes close to that (217hp) And still not as much tq as the Si-R. JUST better gearing and new technology (VTC and such). So yea... what DO you know.

Go sign up on K20A.org....You might learn something. I have an account on there and post / read-up daily.

lol so now ur saying that a H would whoop a K too thanks to that extra tq eh lmaooooooooooooooo...and ur bringin up gearing which if i recall correctly u dont give a flippity something about..

lol ur right what DO I know

 

[Blazed]

maybe a b18c into a civic vs a bolt on prelude... MAYBE.

For further reference... my H dynoed at 163hp/144tq to the wheels with knocking rods and a buried rich A/F ratio... I dont know of any B that could pull that under those conditions.

my buddy has a b16block/ITR head in his 00 SI, tuned, and i put probably 3-4 lengths on him by the end... even with my subs and s**t in my car. We've dicked around and raced probably 5-6 times and its been the same every time.

Im also personally thinking about the h2b combo... b series definatly have the upper hand on the drivetrain side...

Comparing "OEM Output" ratings to argue, is flat pointless. WAY too many variables involved to even get an accurate argument going.

EDIT:
Just thought of something.

I have a buddy that just put a gsr (understanding its not itr, but this argument seems to be b18C_ vs h22 now...) in his 96 ex civic... i have a 96 ex civic with a base model jdm h22, no lsd, dynod 163whp/144wtq... as soon as i get my s**t back on the road ill run him, get it on camera, and post it in this thread. Then maybe a mod will lock it.

b18c can be gsr or itr..denoted by Sir G and R respectively..
a b16 block and a b18 block are no tthe same just as a 2.2 block is not the same..
no1 is arguing the fact that a h22 puts out more power or more tq..nor that it isn't the better bang for the buck...i have simply said that a type r will edge out the h22 in a 1/4 mile race...with a h2b its a completely different ballgame

 

[Blazed]

when does the B18c stop making power/tq?

b18c-sir G = jdm gsr
b18c-R = jdm type r

both codes above are for the jdm motors..and peak tq usually comes before ur peak hp...
usually peak hp is at a few hundred rpms before the redline on a stock motor...with a modded motor with the right parts it can be higher..but without a dyno its impossible to pinpoint where exactly ur peaking in both of those areas..

 

[Beelzebubba]

Just to throw my useless two cents in:

My Integra GS-R runs virtually the same time as my friend's 4th gen Prelude vtec. The published weights give my 'teg about a 150 lb advantage.

Based on that, I would have to give the B18C5 the win.

Driving the H-equipped 'lude quickly is easier because of the extra torque at a lower rpm. Around town it's pretty pleasureable in spite of the slightly vague and way too light shifter feel. I would go with the H22A if I could live without P/S, A/C, and if I could adapt to that wonky ass Toyota Paseo feeling shifter

The B18C1 seems like it swings the needle from 6 to 8 a bit faster than the H22 does from 6 to 7.5. A B18C5 is only going to swing that needle harder and faster.

As far as the racers, You really can't count them because while they may be using an H-block, the internals are heavily re-worked and engineered far beyond what you are likely to be able to accomplish

DART does make B18 and B20 blocks. To the best of my knowledge they do not make an H

 

[Blazed]

what do u know beelze

 

[Beelzebubba]

I don't know nuthin' 'bout no Jap-A-neeze cars with them dinky little 4 cylinder motors


But iffin yew wanna' know about 454 cubic inch truck/boat/trucks, I'm the one to talk to.

 

[Blazed]

rofl another character i missed

 

[GoDave!]

lol so now ur saying that a H would whoop a K too thanks to that extra tq eh lmaooooooooooooooo...and ur bringin up gearing which if i recall correctly u dont give a flippity something about..

lol ur right what DO I know

where the f*ck did I say it would whoop a K. I just brought up some people who run the H all day long and have beaten heavily worked K's in the same chassis. And "K-Killer" which is what DH named their CRX, I never said that anywhere. Plus I was putting their "power output" rating out there for you to see because you were wrong. And way off-topic

An H22A CRX is a straight up a FASTER car than a B18C5 CRX. With equal factors. Go ahead and favor your precious Type-R. Ask anyone with experience with BOTH engines in BOTH chassis, such as myself....or OLOCK on here he can vouch for me, or 90B16ED he can too.

I don't know why people think H-series transmissions have longer gears than they really do. They have slightly longer gears than the VTEC B's. But not that much. And in a lighter chassis, with a huge tq/wt ratio advantage, the H would move through those gears no problem (H22 LSD) Now compare it to a GSR or ITR in the same lightweight chassis, whether it be an ED, EG, or EK,the B has veeery little torque, sure it would be quick through the gears but it will fall on it's face harder than the H at that higher rate of speed..

I HAVE experience with this. My first Honda was a Prelude Si and I got rid of the H23A for a JDM H22A. I had the longest geared trans bolted on that block.....an F22A 1990 Accord CB7 transmission. STOCK clutch, and STOCK flywheel....this trans was untouched. It was OLOCK's old scrap-ass trans from his CB. I fell in love with 2nd gear. Shifting out of 2nd at 80mph was lovely. It was a bad little highway run car. Hell the hatch has to shift twice while I'm still winding out 2nd, which in turned caused some competitive, shorter geared cars to drop back or lose ground on their shifts. And I only fell 500rpm below 5k VTEC in the 1-2 gear transition. lol It was STILL faster than my JDM B16A powered 1990 hatchback I had with Clutchmasters stage 3 clutch and Fidanza 7.5 lb flywheel, not to mention I had quite a few more mods on the hatch than the Prelude. The hatch ate those gears up with next to no time between shifts. That setup was on point! It's mods Included ignition and fuel delivery components. At 90+ the hatch is TOAST. 1-3 gear the thing is rabid! But going into 4th gear on the B16A trans the car doesn't have much left. In the 1/8th mile that hatch ran a 9.6@76mph with shitty (24psi) street tires 190 wide steelies to be exact. Now add 25-30 out of an ITR and 15ft/lbs......BUT take off 900lbs off the H-powered car (My Prelude)...and then redo your equation. Make sure you have read what I just put up here. Read it as many times as it takes for you to answer this:

Which would you rather have?

A.) A gain of 30hp and 15ft/lbs (not at the wheels)
B.) A loss of 900 lbs

I think you have been getting owned enough in this thread. My statements are more than valid, while you had to bring another motor into it as an attempt to strengthen your argument. OMGXZZZZ the TYPE R IS SIK WIT IT YOOOOO!..
It's folks like you who talk ITR motors up so much, that make them overrated.

Have a good one!

P.S. There is a video of an H22A ED racing a K20R EG hatch. The ED lost by a a little over a car from 2nd to 5th gear. stock H22A trans on it too btw. It's on youtube. Look it up.

 

[Hecz]

zamn.

im happy with my m2b4.

i be pullin yo!

 

[Trbolvrcrx]

 

[100Percen%]

Lol. Hell no don't lock! This sh is funny now. As long as there's no stupid insults or namecalling the debate should be encouraged. I don't even care it's gotten off topic (there was no way it was gonna stay o/t anyway). I'm away from CC for a few lousy days and when I come back I get an entertaining read like this. awesome in my book

 

[Hecz]

its not entertainment.. its truth.

 

[Blazed]

where the f*ck did I say it would whoop a K. I just brought up some people who run the H all day long and have beaten heavily worked K's in the same chassis. And "K-Killer" which is what DH named their CRX, I never said that anywhere. Plus I was putting their "power output" rating out there for you to see because you were wrong. And way off-topic

An H22A CRX is a straight up a FASTER car than a B18C5 CRX. With equal factors. Go ahead and favor your precious Type-R. Ask anyone with experience with BOTH engines in BOTH chassis, such as myself....or OLOCK on here he can vouch for me, or 90B16ED he can too.

I don't know why people think H-series transmissions have longer gears than they really do. They have slightly longer gears than the VTEC B's. But not that much. And in a lighter chassis, with a huge tq/wt ratio advantage, the H would move through those gears no problem (H22 LSD) Now compare it to a GSR or ITR in the same lightweight chassis, whether it be an ED, EG, or EK,the B has veeery little torque, sure it would be quick through the gears but it will fall on it's face harder than the H at that higher rate of speed..

I HAVE experience with this. My first Honda was a Prelude Si and I got rid of the H23A for a JDM H22A. I had the longest geared trans bolted on that block.....an F22A 1990 Accord CB7 transmission. STOCK clutch, and STOCK flywheel....this trans was untouched. It was OLOCK's old scrap-ass trans from his CB. I fell in love with 2nd gear. Shifting out of 2nd at 80mph was lovely. It was a bad little highway run car. Hell the hatch has to shift twice while I'm still winding out 2nd, which in turned caused some competitive, shorter geared cars to drop back or lose ground on their shifts. And I only fell 500rpm below 5k VTEC in the 1-2 gear transition. lol It was STILL faster than my JDM B16A powered 1990 hatchback I had with Clutchmasters stage 3 clutch and Fidanza 7.5 lb flywheel, not to mention I had quite a few more mods on the hatch than the Prelude. The hatch ate those gears up with next to no time between shifts. That setup was on point! It's mods Included ignition and fuel delivery components. At 90+ the hatch is TOAST. 1-3 gear the thing is rabid! But going into 4th gear on the B16A trans the car doesn't have much left. In the 1/8th mile that hatch ran a 9.6@76mph with shitty (24psi) street tires 190 wide steelies to be exact. Now add 25-30 out of an ITR and 15ft/lbs......BUT take off 900lbs off the H-powered car (My Prelude)...and then redo your equation. Make sure you have read what I just put up here. Read it as many times as it takes for you to answer this:

Which would you rather have?

A.) A gain of 30hp and 15ft/lbs (not at the wheels)
B.) A loss of 900 lbs

I think you have been getting owned enough in this thread. My statements are more than valid, while you had to bring another motor into it as an attempt to strengthen your argument. OMGXZZZZ the TYPE R IS SIK WIT IT YOOOOO!..
It's folks like you who talk ITR motors up so much, that make them overrated.

Have a good one!

P.S. There is a video of an H22A ED racing a K20R EG hatch. The ED lost by a a little over a car from 2nd to 5th gear. stock H22A trans on it too btw. It's on youtube. Look it up.

damn dude u talk a lot rofl

i wasn't wrong when i said h22 made 200 i just wasn't talkin about the jdm goodness one

lol u get very easily hyped it seems..i never owned neither of those motors mentioned..nowhere did i say i did either...lmao...

my precious type r omg

what i was saying..and i know im wasting my breath here...rofl...a b series type r and a k series (type s /si) r very similar when it comes to power output...almost the same infact...by that logic..u jus admitted 'where the f**k did u say a H series woudl beat a K series lol' that a H wouldn't beat a B...so now see if u can follow this lol..
K and B type r tq and hp = bery bery similar..in fact the tq diff between them if about 2-3 lbs if even that and the same hp ratingss..if the H wont beat the K why u think it will beat the type R? i am talkin all usdm motors here btw..

ooooo let me answer for u..TQQQQQQQQQQQ...

anyways thanks for the sig..as if i didn't feel special already

 

[Blazed]

Lol. Hell no don't lock! This sh is funny now. As long as there's no stupid insults or namecalling the debate should be encouraged. I don't even care it's gotten off topic (there was no way it was gonna stay o/t anyway). I'm away from CC for a few lousy days and when I come back I get an entertaining read like this. awesome in my book

yeh dude i dunno why GOdave gets so worked up over this lol but im glad to help