Questions on replacing head gasket

[Riick]

Getting ready to do my first head gasket and need some advice.

1) Outside of aluminum coolant nozzles are severely pockmarked where coolant leaked- I'll post pics soon. Does this mean I can expect to find similar pocking on the head? (Head gasket has had slow leak for like six years.) If there's a chance part of the head surface is going to look like that then I'll probably sell the car instead of attempting the head gasket (this car is not worth the $$$ for a new head).

2) Do I need to remove the valves before having the head resurfaced? I don't have a valve spring compressor, but the machine shop guy says I should remove as much as possible before he drops the whole thing in a citrate bath.

3) I'm hoping maybe I can just put the entire cam/rocker arm assembly in a clean trash bag during the head work and then bolt it back on without ever cleaning or checking it. Is this a bad idea?

 

[mymmeryloss]

I can tell u this. Half assing something will give u half assed results...

But u know what they say -- half ass is better than no ass...

I would take the time and do it right man.
Remove valves and measure clearance on everything and check for cracks and warpage...

 

[Riick]

How likely is it that the coolant pockmarked the head like it did the nozzles?

 

[Riick]

Remove valves and measure clearance on everything

What tools will I need? Where can I get them? How much should I expect them to cost?

check for cracks and warpage...

Confused... The machine shop guy is going to do this as part of refinishing the head. Are you saying I should buy a $200 precision straight edge so I can second guess him?

 

[mymmeryloss]

No im saying visually look at it after u pull the head to see if its worth even attempting to fix...

And u can get cheap calipers and stuff at harbor freight...

 

[Zedicous]

If you do it, i'd put some new head bolts, the old ones do streach over time.

 

[sohclubkid]

Getting ready to do my first head gasket and need some advice.

1) Outside of aluminum coolant nozzles are severely pockmarked where coolant leaked- I'll post pics soon. Does this mean I can expect to find similar pocking on the head? (Head gasket has had slow leak for like six years.) If there's a chance part of the head surface is going to look like that then I'll probably sell the car instead of attempting the head gasket (this car is not worth the $$$ for a new head).

2) Do I need to remove the valves before having the head resurfaced? I don't have a valve spring compressor, but the machine shop guy says I should remove as much as possible before he drops the whole thing in a citrate bath.

3) I'm hoping maybe I can just put the entire cam/rocker arm assembly in a clean trash bag during the head work and then bolt it back on without ever cleaning or checking it. Is this a bad idea?

!. no, those are cheap shitty pot metal, they always corrode. the head should be just fine.

2. most machine shops will remove them for you, but it will cost you. if you are scared to do it yourself, pay them to remove and install them after the head is inspected and cleaned.
also, if the head doesnt need resurfacing, it can be cleaned fully assembled.

3. yes thats a bad idea. a proper valve adjustment after a head is disassembled is highly recommended.

 

[sohclubkid]

If you do it, i'd put some new head bolts, the old ones do streach over time.

he is correct... they actually stretch when you torque them.

also, go with an OEM honda headgasket. i usually spray mine with copper head gasket spray when i put them on to ensure a great seal.

 

[Riick]

No im saying visually look at it after u pull the head to see if its worth even attempting to fix...

Ah - a quick and dirty initial checkover. That makes sense. Should I just eyeball it or would it better if I check with my cheap carpenter's square and some feeler gauges for this initial check?

And u can get cheap calipers and stuff at harbor freight...

Good- I will do that.

If you do it, i'd put some new head bolts, the old ones do streach over time.

New head bolts- got it.

1. no, those are cheap s***ty pot metal, they always corrode. the head should be just fine.

That's a relief! If my head looked like that I'd be a tad upset. I just hope it's not cracked...

2. most machine shops will remove them for you, but it will cost you. if you are scared to do it yourself, pay them to remove and install them after the head is inspected and cleaned.

I might do that because I'm thinking the spring compressor is going to be expensive. Should I also have them recondition the valve seats, or is that just for if there are known problems?

also, if the head doesnt need resurfacing, it can be cleaned fully assembled.

So the disassembly is just for the resurfacing? But if it's cleaned fully assembled wouldn't that leave cleaning residue between the valve stems and the head?

3. yes thats a bad idea. a proper valve adjustment after a head is disassembled is highly recommended.

Thanks for the info- I will do a valve adjustment. Do I also need to take all the little pieces off the rocker shaft, clean each piece individually, and check the diameter of each piece individually, or is that overkill? Ditto for taking the cam off to measure bearing clearances and lobe height wear- important or overkill?

 

[mymmeryloss]

I would check everything while its apart!

Might as well right

 

[SmArTs]

How do you know its your head gasket?do you have water in the oil?what do you have on the radiator?water or anti-freeze?

 

[Riick]

How do you know its your head gasket?do you have water in the oil?

Disappearing coolant (maybe 1 gal per 400 miles)
Oil in antifreeze
Dampness inside #1 cylinder that smells like antifreeze
excessive moisture dripping out of tailpipe
exhaust has slight antifreeze odor.
Coolant being displaced by air bubbles. (Overflow bottle hasn't spilled over yet, but sometimes it gets close to that.)

what do you have on the radiator?water or anti-freeze?

confused: are you asking what I'm using for coolant? My coolant is green anitfreeze diluted 50/50.

 

[sohclubkid]

when they clean honda heads, its usually in a hot tank of solution. it wont mess up the valves.

 

[Riick]

when they clean honda heads, its usually in a hot tank of solution. it wont mess up the valves.

Good. Related question- will I need to put oil between the valve stems and the valve guides somehow when I reinstall? (Not sure how I would get it in there.)

 

[sohclubkid]

Good. Related question- will I need to put oil between the valve stems and the valve guides somehow when I reinstall? (Not sure how I would get it in there.)

i usually just install the head, and leave the valve cover off then pour a quart of oil slowly over the areas that need oil.

 

[Riick]

i usually just install the head, and leave the valve cover off then pour a quart of oil slowly over the areas that need oil.

Cool- thanks for the advice!

Anyone know a good way to clean the block surface? I've heard brake cleaner plus a light rub with scotch-brite scrub pads, but how do I keep the brake cleaner from running down into the piston rings?

 

[sohclubkid]

Cool- thanks for the advice!

Anyone know a good way to clean the block surface? I've heard brake cleaner plus a light rub with scotch-brite scrub pads, but how do I keep the brake cleaner from running down into the piston rings?

i used very fine grit sand paper on a sanding block. i rotated the crank so the pistons were all in the middle of the cylinders, and stuffed blue shop towels in the cylinders. then i wetsanded the block surface till it was clean, and shiny.

 

[Riick]

i used very fine grit sand paper on a sanding block. i rotated the crank so the pistons were all in the middle of the cylinders, and stuffed blue shop towels in the cylinders. then i wetsanded the block surface till it was clean, and shiny.

Towels. Good. I'll probably use paper towels though.
Yikes wet sanding? I'm afraid I'll go too hard and mess up the block surface. Brake cleaner / scotch brite would be safer right? (I was even thinking of trying one of those nylon scubbies designed for teflon pans.) I'll have 800 grit on the ready though just in case...

What's a good way to line everything up on reassembly? I've heard of using hacksawed head bolts, but it seems they could easily scratch the head surface. I've heard of using wooden dowels or pencils but it seems pieces of wood could scrape off and get stuck in the head bolts or gasket. Suggestions anyone?

 

[sohclubkid]

Towels. Good. I'll probably use paper towels though.
Yikes wet sanding? I'm afraid I'll go too hard and mess up the block surface. Brake cleaner / scotch brite would be safer right? (I was even thinking of trying one of those nylon scubbies designed for teflon pans.) I'll have 800 grit on the ready though just in case...

What's a good way to line everything up on reassembly? I've heard of using hacksawed head bolts, but it seems they could easily scratch the head surface. I've heard of using wooden dowels or pencils but it seems pieces of wood could scrape off and get stuck in the head bolts or gasket. Suggestions anyone?

you will be there a while with scotch brite... but it will work.i dont press when sanding the block surface, just let the weight of the sanding block do the work.

there are two dowel pins that lie up the head and block from the factory. its not hard to line up really, but you could use 2 long 1/4" inch socket extensions for alignment.

 

[Riick]

you will be there a while with scotch brite... but it will work.i dont press when sanding the block surface, just let the weight of the sanding block do the work.

Hmm... Let's hope the brake cleaner desolves the gunk OK. Will brake cleaner etch the metal?

there are two dowel pins that lie up the head and block from the factory.

Very cool- I didn't know you could use those to line things up.